Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > Open Source Reflashes

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-03-2013, 10:58 AM   #1
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default Tuning after swap. Cant idle

I swapped in a 08 WRX motor after the motor in my 04 FXT finally went out. It has

Top feed TGVs deleted
Deleted air pump
Grimspeed uppipe and full exhaust (cant remember the brand right now)
Bosch 850cc top feed injectors

I cannot get it to idle for the life of me. I will try to let it learn idle, it will idle roughly, then if I rev it up, as it comes back down it'll stumble then die.

My A/F corrections is 25.0 went its idling, and I feel like its running really lean. Wideband will be here today.

Now, if my corrections are positive, it is adding fuel. So therefore I need to raise my injector flow scaling or my latency. The Bosch injector latency chart I got starts at 8v and goes to 18v. So I dont know what to put at 6v in the latency. Does that mean these injectors arent meant for 6v?

I thought I had a vacuum leak, fixed what I thought was it and still same thing.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-03-2013, 11:58 AM   #2
GulfCoastMotorworks
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 358317
Join Date: Jun 2013
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Bonita Springs, FL
Vehicle:
6266 Built Bugeye
GulfCoastMotorWorks.com

Default

Post your injector latencies and scaling.
What intake is on the car also?

Basically the car is at max correction in CL. so yes a +25% is stupid lean. Either, MAF sclae is not set correctly, scale/lats incorrect.

Or you can just call the shop i'll walk you through it.
GulfCoastMotorworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 12:46 PM   #3
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

Stock intake. With injector flow scaling, I had 850 first, now Im at 890 and no change at all.

As for latency's, I started with the DW 850 latencys, then I changed them to

6-3.5
9-1.03
12-.74
14-.60
16-.46

From 9v and up are the latencys for the injectors, I just guessed at 6 because the chart started at 8v.

Im going to check for more vacuum leaks this afternoon.
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 01:36 PM   #4
endrswrd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 323908
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Dayton Ohio
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ ltd
ISM

Default

The issues is probably your latencies. There is alot of conflicting info on the DW850s I ended up using something closer to stock and tweaking form there. When I tried using the data sheet from DW the car ran like ****, I ended up finding somebody on Romraider who posted a good set of latencies and went from there.

I would start with stock latencies and tweak from there.
endrswrd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 03:42 PM   #5
Bamofo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 159743
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Plymouth Ma
Vehicle:
07 STI Limited
TurboMike Tuned 2.35

Default

making the number higher will only make your car run leaner btw. You have to think of it as if your the car.... it thought it had 850's in it so it sprays X amount of fuel in the cylinder. now you have 890's so your car says oh... i have 890's i dont have to spray for as long because bigger injectors!

There are other things you should look at too like Fuel overrun which is when the injectors turn back on when its reving down.. if you play with the idle at all (target idle) you will want to play with these settings. if you send over a pm to me i will take a look and help where i can.

Best advise right now though is to put in 825 as your number and try restarting it again. when it warms up and is out of 7 mode, in to 8 mode, see what hte correction is. If its less the 25 then you are on the right track... Then you can start playing with the maf settings to get it right.
Bamofo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 04:26 PM   #6
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

You can always change your axis for the latencies. There's no reason you have to stick with 6, 9, 12, etc. Change them to what you want/need, so long as it still covers roughly the same range. If your battery is at 6v, you have worse things to think about than the fueling getting a little wacky...

Like Bamofo said, you're think about rich/lean and the values in the ROM backwards. Higher scalar in the ROM means the ECU opens the injector for less time, which will make you run more lean. Higher latency in the ROM means the ECU opens the injector longer, which will make you run more rich.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 06:59 PM   #7
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

When watching in on romraider, the A/F correction starts negative, then after idling for 5 seconds or so, goes all the way back up to positive 25. There's nothing in the A/F learning and the A/F sensor starts around 12 or 13, then as it idles, shoots up to 17-19 ish. What's going on?
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 07:26 PM   #8
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

And maybe I have a misunderstanding of what the volts mean. What is the volt axis mean on the latency chart? If its the amount volts running through the car, why does it go down to 6v and up to 18v? My car wouldnt even be running if it was at 6volts.
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 08:07 PM   #9
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dborne View Post
And maybe I have a misunderstanding of what the volts mean. What is the volt axis mean on the latency chart? If its the amount volts running through the car, why does it go down to 6v and up to 18v?
To cover extreme conditions. 18v is a bit ridiculous, as is 6v, but you could see anywhere between about 9-10v and 14v depending on conditions (9-10v = cold cranking on a low battery, 14v = healthy battery and alternator while running).
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 08:52 PM   #10
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

So if I'm idling , 14v is the one that is going to be the most effective changing in the latency table? And while idling, the fuel pressure will be less then 43psi at which the injectors are tested at. So the injectors would really be around 825cc... That's why it's adding so much corrections at idle when I have te flow scale at 850?
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:16 AM   #11
GulfCoastMotorworks
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 358317
Join Date: Jun 2013
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Bonita Springs, FL
Vehicle:
6266 Built Bugeye
GulfCoastMotorWorks.com

Default

Unplug the FPR from the vacuum source i assure you it's near 43psi. 43psi static, not vacuum adjusted.

And no not at all...the car isn't running because you don't have your latencies dialed in correctly. You're blindly making changes not knowing what you're doing.

Set the scaler to 830cc...do not touch anything else but latencies until you start to get where you want to be.

The reason you're so lean is latency.....period. Has nothing to do with your scaler. Add .1 to lats for every roughly 10% fuel at idle-low loads. If your car is adding 20% start with adding .2 through the entire range (example below).

6-3.5 = 3.7
9-1.03 = 1.05
12-.74 =.76

Also these latencies look like ****. What brand are the injectors? Bosch what? They have multiple types of bosch with different cores. Are they Deatschwerks, Five-O,...

Also you can't take a fresh start correctional value. You must idle until correction has settled after the car is warm. Going rich to lean on start is 100% normal.

/Drunkmann

Last edited by GulfCoastMotorworks; 06-04-2013 at 09:32 AM.
GulfCoastMotorworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 09:35 AM   #12
the suicidal eggroll
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 51961
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Broomfield, CO
Vehicle:
2005 STi
2012 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dborne View Post
So if I'm idling , 14v is the one that is going to be the most effective changing in the latency table? And while idling, the fuel pressure will be less then 43psi at which the injectors are tested at. So the injectors would really be around 825cc... That's why it's adding so much corrections at idle when I have te flow scale at 850?
Yes 12-14 is going to be the most applicable under nearly all circumstances.

When idling the fuel pressure will not be less than 43 psi. You're confusing rail pressure with the pressure differential across the injector. The pressure differential across the injector is what matters, and will always be ~43 psi...that's what the FPR's job is. The rail pressure will be less than 43 psi, but that doesn't affect anything but the fuel pump.

The difference between 825 and 850 is minuscule and has nothing to do with your idle corrections. That's a 3% change, you have a >25% error.

At idle, latency dominates the IPW. At WOT, scalar dominates the IPW. Tune each in their respective areas. If you try to tune scalar at idle you're going to get nowhere fast, just like if you try to tune latency at WOT.
the suicidal eggroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:55 PM   #13
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

Ok I got it dialed in somewhat. It keeps changing on me and theres no learning corrections, just immediate, well so far. I already made some logs, nothing big enough yet to use, but when I do, how do I make the column to plot the maf voltage changes? This would be in ECUexploer after I log? Or in Romraider while logging?

And my injectors are just Bosch, thats it. I had them for my old 240sx, in retrospect, I probably should have gotten something with more of a name.
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 04:16 PM   #14
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

Turns out I'm getting a misfire on cyl. 3. The tabs broken on the coil clip so hopefully that's it. Maybe.
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 06:01 PM   #15
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

Well I feel dumb. I guess when I was putting everything together clyinder 3 injectors clip was loose. No more misfires. Hopefully I can get those latencys tuned in with more ease now.
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #16
TurboJunkie85
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193412
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
1985 pumas.
white

Default

What are you scaling those injectors to on ECUFLASH? 790cc?
TurboJunkie85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 02:45 PM   #17
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

Right now 830cc.

But if I have the latencys given to me from who sold them to me, can I just use those, then change me maf values? I thought the latencys were mechanical values for the injectors.... My learning view is positive and negative, Ill try to post the numbers later.
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 09:25 AM   #18
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

Is it normal for it to idle with -25 af correction without a/c and then went I turn the a/c on, jump all the way to +25 af correction? And then the other day I got te CEL "system too lean" but I have logging and it looks like it's running more rich when I'm driving...
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 02:11 PM   #19
GulfCoastMotorworks
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 358317
Join Date: Jun 2013
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Bonita Springs, FL
Vehicle:
6266 Built Bugeye
GulfCoastMotorWorks.com

Default

No....not in the least.
GulfCoastMotorworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 03:45 PM   #20
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

Sooo what would that be?
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2013, 07:09 PM   #21
GulfCoastMotorworks
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 358317
Join Date: Jun 2013
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Bonita Springs, FL
Vehicle:
6266 Built Bugeye
GulfCoastMotorWorks.com

Default

Like I said earlier you probably have your latencies/MAF tables all screwy.
GulfCoastMotorworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2013, 12:20 AM   #22
Dborne
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 286280
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lake Wales, FL
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT
Silver

Default

For those who have the similar problem as me, I had a huge vacuum leak. One of the hoses that went to the PCV was completely split I guess when I was installing the motor. It runs like a charm now, with the changes Im making in ecuflash actually doing what I want it to do. Make sure your car is mechanically sound before you even touch the computer.
Dborne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.