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Old 10-27-2008, 11:06 AM   #176
unclemat
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Pretty remarkable speed at which new part was designed and manufactured! Thumbs up. On the flip side, indeed begs questions about amount of real life testing that has been put into the revised part. Few track days would be quite appropriate...
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:11 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boost junkie View Post
Thanks for the update Jim. I have to admit though, this statement makes me a little nervous:



I don't think you should release anything until you can say "we're 100% certain this part will work well." It may seem like a dumb thing to get hung up on but I think that's important.
How can they be 100% confident without a ton of testing? It sure doesn't sound like any of you are willing to wait for said testing to occur.

This thread reminds me of sharks circling an injured fish.
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:06 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullerton View Post
How can they be 100% confident without a ton of testing? It sure doesn't sound like any of you are willing to wait for said testing to occur.

This thread reminds me of sharks circling an injured fish.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I know I'd rather wait a bit longer for a product that's sure to work, rather than a quick fix that doesn't. I'm not saying Whiteline won't redesign the part correctly, just pointing out that the way that statement was phrased doesn't really inspire confidence.
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:46 PM   #179
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G'day everyone,

I guess its not our style to appear too cocky and we feel that a bit of humility is appropriate considering the trouble some of you are going through. We really weren’t trying to portray a lack of confidence so forgive us for sounding wishy-washy. Needless to say, we wouldn’t release this if we weren’t confident that it would fix the problem as we want to recover the confidence of the our customers.

There wasn’t really an issue with the internals of the old design, more a external dimension and resultant fitment issue so we are confident that durability testing is not critical as we are fundamentally dealing with the same part and this has been done. The factory is a reputable manufacturer of these sorts of parts supplying Europe and the US for over 30 years but it was the design and interpretation of the external dimensions during the supplier change process that let us down and created this issue.

Needless to say, we will fit a set of the new design to our development fleet cars as soon as they are available and monitor their performance. Hope that answers your questions and concerns.

Best regards
Whiteline Jim

www.whiteline.com.au
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Old 10-27-2008, 11:26 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WL Flatout View Post
There wasn’t really an issue with the internals of the old design, more a external dimension and resultant fitment issue so we are confident that durability testing is not critical as we are fundamentally dealing with the same part and this has been done. The factory is a reputable manufacturer of these sorts of parts supplying Europe and the US for over 30 years but it was the design and interpretation of the external dimensions during the supplier change process that let us down and created this issue.

Best regards
Whiteline Jim

I beg to differ.

The internals were substantially sub-par on the previous KAC313 ball joints as compared to the OEM pieces. I had 2 sets of KAC313 ball-joints fail in less than 12,000 miles. They got so loose internally that it sounded like the wheels were going to fall off. The slop was so bad that you could visably see it when you held the ball-joint in your hands and pulled on the shaft.

The internals need to be changed as much if not more than the outside. This is not a viable product if only the outside dimentions are changed. And I have doubts that changing the outside dimensions will solve the issue.

A fellow NASIOC'r has posted there that all that needs to be done is to copy the OEM piece. I disagree. Yes that design works for the OEM piece,...but the loads on the Whiteline piece are in a different place than on the OEM one. Hence, coppying the design is not necessarilly OK.

In any ball joint,..the actual place where the load transfer occurs is at the middle of the ball and socket. With the OEM piece,..the ball is up inside the knuckle just a bit,..so the load is transmitted up the ball shaft INTO the knuckle. With the Whiteline piece it occurs outside the knuckle, inducing a torque that was not present with the stock pieces,..and which the knuckle was almost certainly not designed for. This will be very difficult to deal with.


At the very least,..the groove should be tighter than the oem piece,..and made as close to the bottom as possible (so as to help hold the ball joint up tight into the knuckle). The smaller the groove, the more surface area there will be to the knuckle.

Possibly a higher grade bolt (if that exists) with a tighter torque spec.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:14 AM   #181
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the ultimate solution, of course, is to sell knuckles (or front subframes). Are the OEM knuckles cast or forged? If cast, it shouldn't be too hard to copy the OEM piece adding the extra height in. It would be easier for the STI since it uses insert wheel bearing bodies. Of course this would require a separate part for WRX's and STI's- oh well.

Frank
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:17 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank A View Post
the ultimate solution, of course, is to sell knuckles (or front subframes). Are the OEM knuckles cast or forged? If cast, it shouldn't be too hard to copy the OEM piece adding the extra height in. It would be easier for the STI since it uses insert wheel bearing bodies. Of course this would require a separate part for WRX's and STI's- oh well.

Frank
Don't forget LGT dude! Although 08 WRX and 05+ LGT are very likely the same.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:46 AM   #183
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And '04 STI's have press-in bearings,..whereas '05+ have bolt on bearing assemblies.

It would be 3+ sets that would need to be cast,..left and right. 6+ castings.

Expensive !
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:45 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by boost junkie View Post
I can't speak for everyone else, but I know I'd rather wait a bit longer for a product that's sure to work, rather than a quick fix that doesn't. I'm not saying Whiteline won't redesign the part correctly, just pointing out that the way that statement was phrased doesn't really inspire confidence.
+1. It just doesn't inspire user confidence... Early this wk, I checked my RCA kit and there were no gaps or weird vibrations (yet). But I took them out (joints were still good) and will stick with stock parts until the issue is resolved for good. Call me paranoid but safety and reliability takes precedence over performance gains any day...
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:23 AM   #185
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jim,
i recently purchased a set of these from another member unused, but now im scared to install them. would i be able to get a revised kit as well in exchange for this one?
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:03 PM   #186
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Well I hope this doesnt turn out to be a band aid on a gun shot wound.



Ian,
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:37 PM   #187
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ya I have these installed, bu I am considering taking them out when I do my swap in a couple weeks. If there is an updated version I would like to throw them in. Thanks for keeping us updated.
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:10 PM   #188
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G'day everyone,

As previously mentioned, anyone concerned with their current KCA313 can return for replacement with the new design set. We just need some sort of proof of purchase first and you're probably best off contacting Global in the US for the fastest turn around. They should have stock within the fortnight.

Ian, I don't want to get involved in band-aid solutions either, our engineering guys are confident this will do the job.

DuckStu, we have had some running changes to internals since the first generation and the last one involved the manufacturer change with a further beef up inside. With respect, its impractical for us to open up a discussion forum on the relative merits of all dimensions changes, our current internals vs the old and invite design by committee. I can only ask that you give these a go but will respect your decison not to.

Hope you hang in there with us.

Best regards
Whiteline Jim

Whiteline Flatout
www.whiteline.com.au
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:13 PM   #189
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I there any way to visually decipher the new versions from the old accurately?
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:51 PM   #190
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Doesn't possessing the balljoints and tie rods represent "proof of purchase"?
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:01 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Doesn't possessing the balljoints and tie rods represent "proof of purchase"?
i'd have to agree as I don't keep all the receipts of my car mods.
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Old 10-31-2008, 12:45 AM   #192
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Hi Jim, do you have any pictures of the newly designed Roll-center Kit?

And when can we start ordering this new version?

Last edited by jal723; 10-31-2008 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 10-31-2008, 05:25 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterKwan View Post
Doesn't possessing the balljoints and tie rods represent "proof of purchase"?
I submitted photos of the Whiteline ball joints on my car and the box that they came in, and they accepted that as sufficient proof. Hoping to receive the replacement units asap...
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:14 PM   #194
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Do we need to send back our old set?
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Old 10-31-2008, 01:29 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WL Flatout View Post
G'day everyone,

As previously mentioned, anyone concerned with their current KCA313 can return for replacement with the new design set. We just need some sort of proof of purchase first and you're probably best off contacting Global in the US for the fastest turn around. They should have stock within the fortnight.

Ian, I don't want to get involved in band-aid solutions either, our engineering guys are confident this will do the job.

DuckStu, we have had some running changes to internals since the first generation and the last one involved the manufacturer change with a further beef up inside. With respect, its impractical for us to open up a discussion forum on the relative merits of all dimensions changes, our current internals vs the old and invite design by committee. I can only ask that you give these a go but will respect your decison not to.

Hope you hang in there with us.

Best regards
Whiteline Jim

Whiteline Flatout
www.whiteline.com.au

Just sent an email regarding replacement parts. I have a track weekend November 15-16 and I'd really like to get them replaced before then. Any chance that might happen?
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Old 10-31-2008, 03:38 PM   #196
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I just spoke with Judy @ Global Performance today and ill be receiving my new kit in a few weeks.

I spoken with Judy and Glen several times in the past and they have always been great...

Ian,
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Old 10-31-2008, 07:15 PM   #197
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I wanted to warn the people following this thread that there have been some damaged ball joint mounts after many miles using the RCA kit. I am guessing that either the ball joint of the kit was not machined large enough and/or the increased load causes it to rock back and forth under extreme load which enlarges the mounting spot on the knuckle(spindle). Unfortunately the only way to repair this was to replace the ball joint and kuckle which also means a new wheel bearing and alignment.

My second concern - what happens when the ball joint or tie rod boot is ripped or the part is worn internally? What if either is damaged in an accident? I have not seen the option to order individual parts from the kit.
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Old 11-01-2008, 02:25 PM   #198
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I'm scared to look... I bought my KCA313 kit on July 9th.
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Old 11-01-2008, 07:30 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciper View Post
I wanted to warn the people following this thread that there have been some damaged ball joint mounts after many miles using the RCA kit. I am guessing that either the ball joint of the kit was not machined large enough and/or the increased load causes it to rock back and forth under extreme load which enlarges the mounting spot on the knuckle(spindle). Unfortunately the only way to repair this was to replace the ball joint and kuckle which also means a new wheel bearing and alignment.

My second concern - what happens when the ball joint or tie rod boot is ripped or the part is worn internally? What if either is damaged in an accident? I have not seen the option to order individual parts from the kit.
I take it you didn't read the thread...
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Old 11-01-2008, 10:39 PM   #200
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Friggin A. Just checked mine and sure enough they were out on both sides. Loosened the pinch bolts and they popped back in. I have a track weekend at VIR in 2 weeks. Think I'll be OK or should I put the stockers back? Has anyone actually had these fail, as in rip out of the knuckle?







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