Turbo Mike's Motor thread - Page 2

Turbo_Mike · 02-29-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flycaster

I think you're just parsing words here, but you're entitled to your own conclusions.

My definition of detonation is an un-controlled, unwanted explosion at the wrong time.

And as we all know, advancing timing raises cylinder pressure, and so does raising boost. Well the pistons are only physically so strong. So there IS a point that the ring lands will yield, crack, and break... even with no pinging, detonation, or overheating(lean). I mean if you want to get picky, the engine runs on detonation. Fuel is compressed, its lit on fire, it explodes, theres a huge surge of pressure, and the piston gets pushed town. The more voilent the explosion, the more power you make.

I'm not saying the pistons breaking didnt have anything to do with running high boost, high compression, and high timing. I'm sure that thats what broke it. But there was no mistake or event that just blasted the motor apart, this is a prolonged failure from overworking stock parts.

blkscooby · 02-29-2008, 05:10 PM

So are you going to use stock dia pistons or bore it out for 100 mm ones?

Turbo_Mike · 02-29-2008, 07:13 PM

I'm gonna go stock, see what happens. Really dont wonna send it to a machine shop.

luchin · 03-05-2008, 11:18 PM

do cp pistons 8.2:1 you need to lower the compression probrably you running 9.1-9.3:1 this is the reason you crack the ring lands check your fuel injectors at same time.. go for thicker head gasket like cometic 1.3mm or .051" you should be rigth at 8.4 or 8.3..

i am in the same boat crack 3 pistons in the last month 2 times #4 and this last time i don't no yet. i get pissed and spent 1400$ for make it work rigth starting for pistons and finishing w/ fuel rail

oh don't send heads or block to the machine shop if they do the head job you raising the compression..
the ringlands broke soo cool they don't hurt the sleeves the only way to put out the broke piece of ringland is taking out the ring on the piston.
check for scratches feel w/ your nail if have groves or something

btw buy you a lot of brake cleaner and clean the engine bay really good before put back the engine
if is like mine start to spit oil from the bov

SBW · 03-06-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Mike

My definition of detonation is an un-controlled, unwanted explosion at the wrong time.

And as we all know, advancing timing raises cylinder pressure, and so does raising boost. Well the pistons are only physically so strong. So there IS a point that the ring lands will yield, crack, and break... even with no pinging, detonation, or overheating(lean). I mean if you want to get picky, the engine runs on detonation. Fuel is compressed, its lit on fire, it explodes, theres a huge surge of pressure, and the piston gets pushed town. The more voilent the explosion, the more power you make.

I'm not saying the pistons breaking didnt have anything to do with running high boost, high compression, and high timing. I'm sure that thats what broke it. But there was no mistake or event that just blasted the motor apart, this is a prolonged failure from overworking stock parts.

I'd run less advance Mike if you're going to use stock pistons over again. you could get them coated, but why waste the money on stock pistons?

I think you'll save money over time to just use a set of cp's now.

Turbo_Mike · 03-06-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBW

I'd run less advance Mike if you're going to use stock pistons over again. you could get them coated, but why waste the money on stock pistons?

I think you'll save money over time to just use a set of cp's now.

I'm going to be running wiseco pistons. The post above was referring to running "stock" size pistons, meaning I wont be boring or sleeving the motor.

luchin · 03-06-2008, 03:10 PM

don't use wiseco they have 8.5:1 and is way too high for hibrid the best piston is cp 8.2:1
if you don want to keep blowing your engines ...
probrably you need sti cams as well i got a 2.5 sb w/2.0 head 20g fmic headers back and i never loose power at all i am pushing 23psi w/ 93 octane feels good

1fly05sti · 03-31-2009, 10:51 PM

hey mike i hope mike looks cleaner than that! LOL

sube-trex · 11-08-2009, 05:29 PM

at least they were breaking for a reason. abuse

Turbo_Mike · 11-10-2009, 12:32 PM

crazy bump from the dead...

yuppp.. there are only so many rev limiter donuts stock pistons will do :-)

turns out wisecos can do a crapload of em lol.. and its still running 2 years later

wrxsti.l · 11-10-2009, 08:27 PM

nice

So what was the final comp ratio with the wisecos? Also, what are the final specs of that build (bore, stroke etc)? And how much power are you now making?

Leslie

Homemade WRX · 11-11-2009, 10:03 AM

IIRC, he has off the shelf Wiseco (EJ257) with 75mm crank and standard 130.5mm rods...thus he has a massive quench height and a low compression ratio thanks to coming short of deck height by 2mm+.

However a simple +2mm rod should get him close to an 8.0:1 CR...custom pistons (or rods) are still the only solution for properly doing a destroked EJ257, whether you go long rod or not.

I still give him a thumbs up!

-Micah

Turbo_Mike · 11-11-2009, 01:33 PM

all OTS... I built the motor myself at my house, only service not done by me was the cylinder bore and the head porting.

stock length eagle rods, 100mm wiseco pistons (rods and pistons hand balanced to .01 grams)
ACL race bearings, 08 sti oil pump ported and shimmed
03 wrx heads, ported, polished, factory stock valves, BC springs/retainers, BC272 cams
stock head bolts, stock head gaskets
stock tb, stock intake manifold, DIY TGV deletes, 1300cc DW injectors, AEM EMS tuned by me..

I've had it to 9300rpm, the power noses over right at 9050-9100 on the dyno.....

I ran it all last year with the perrin 3582R kit, ran 11.4 @121 @30 psi, not enough turbo for it... ran outta juice at around 8100...

This year I've done a best of 11.2 @ 124 on 24 psi boost, went back @ 34 psi on race gas and blew the clutch on the first pass at 3/4 track and rolled to an 11.3 @ 117

Turbo_Mike · 11-11-2009, 01:40 PM

MOV01569.flv video by Dudley302 - Photobucket

MVI_0809.flv video by Dudley302 - Photobucket

DSC_0278.flv video by Dudley302 - Photobucket

YouTube- Syracuse Nationals Sick Subaru AWD Burnout

YouTube- burnouts commerce 2

Stock 2.0 crank:

The lower stroke:

BC cams:

Homemade WRX · 11-11-2009, 03:03 PM

have you adjusted timing on the cams at all? BC also uses the same lobe for EJ20 and EJ25 cams, despite the difference in rod ratio...some real EJ20 cams would probably make a noticeable gain in top end...that or adjusting your cam timing.

rexblake · 11-11-2009, 03:29 PM

So your running a ej205 crank in a 257 block with eagle rods and wiseco pistons? What displacement does that net you then? I'm impressed that those 272 can still make power so far up in the RPM range! I wish my short block had acl bearings in it as well, so I could rev the piss out of it.

Turbo_Mike · 11-11-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

have you adjusted timing on the cams at all? BC also uses the same lobe for EJ20 and EJ25 cams, despite the difference in rod ratio...some real EJ20 cams would probably make a noticeable gain in top end...that or adjusting your cam timing.

Nope, cams are installed straight up with stock cam pulleys. I was thinking about retarding the intake cams a tooth, I've done it on hybrid/stock cam motors with great improvement on the top end... I think one tooth is about 7 degrees....

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexblake

So your running a ej205 crank in a 257 block with eagle rods and wiseco pistons? What displacement does that net you then? I'm impressed that those 272 can still make power so far up in the RPM range! I wish my short block had acl bearings in it as well, so I could rev the piss out of it.

Correct. And displacement is about 2.35L.

soon2bblackongold · 11-11-2009, 09:51 PM

i'm jealous, i'd love a different setup like this

Homemade WRX · 11-12-2009, 02:49 PM

correct 1 tooth = 7*

Turbo_Mike · 11-12-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

correct 1 tooth = 7*

Have you had any success or gain with advancing exhaust cams?

Homemade WRX · 11-12-2009, 05:05 PM

you're going to want to retard your cam gears...as for the intake, I don't know what you have going on for cams...not sure of centerlines and all that jazz...just know that your on a lobe designed for an EJ257

I've played with cam gears on Hondas, Subies and Mitsus...changes and gains are completely dependent upon the setup but general rule is that retarding will help with higher rpm, advancing helps low end...but that's general knowledge.

Turbo_Mike · 11-12-2009, 05:48 PM

I could probably put the cams in backwards and nothing would happen :-P

I'll have the motor apart over the winter, it needs freakin valve seals, so I have some pondering to do about cams... I believe advancing the exhaust cam raises EGT which increases turbocharger efficiency at the expense of the valves. On a N/A motor retarding everything is the best gain, but I remember some conversations of the opposite being true with a big turbo high rpm motor on the exhaust side. Only one way to find out I guess :-P

TDagen · 11-12-2009, 08:53 PM

What turbo is on the car now?

john 1badSTI · 11-12-2009, 09:10 PM

I have had good success on a built 35r 2.5 hybrid running crower 280 nonavcs cams and jun gears on only the exhaust side.Retarding about 3 degrees the car picked up about 30whp and trq at the wheels and help spool a couple hundred rpm.

hobbesnapoli · 11-14-2009, 10:35 PM

So this car is RWD right...?

03-05-2008, 11:18 PM	#29
luchin NASIOC Supporter Member#: 128862 Join Date: Oct 2006 Chapter/Region: South East Location: birmingham,al Vehicle: 2003 2.5 wi 60-1 wrb	do cp pistons 8.2:1 you need to lower the compression probrably you running 9.1-9.3:1 this is the reason you crack the ring lands check your fuel injectors at same time.. go for thicker head gasket like cometic 1.3mm or .051" you should be rigth at 8.4 or 8.3.. i am in the same boat crack 3 pistons in the last month 2 times #4 and this last time i don't no yet. i get pissed and spent 1400$ for make it work rigth starting for pistons and finishing w/ fuel rail oh don't send heads or block to the machine shop if they do the head job you raising the compression.. the ringlands broke soo cool they don't hurt the sleeves the only way to put out the broke piece of ringland is taking out the ring on the piston. check for scratches feel w/ your nail if have groves or something btw buy you a lot of brake cleaner and clean the engine bay really good before put back the engine if is like mine start to spit oil from the bov Last edited by luchin; 03-05-2008 at 11:29 PM.

11-10-2009, 12:32 PM	#35
Turbo_Mike Scooby Newbie Member#: 130276 Join Date: Oct 2006 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Dudley, MA Vehicle: 2003 WRB WRX 2.3L 6spd RWD 40R	crazy bump from the dead... yuppp.. there are only so many rev limiter donuts stock pistons will do :-) turns out wisecos can do a crapload of em lol.. and its still running 2 years later Last edited by Turbo_Mike; 11-10-2009 at 12:38 PM.

11-11-2009, 01:33 PM	#38
Turbo_Mike Scooby Newbie Member#: 130276 Join Date: Oct 2006 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Dudley, MA Vehicle: 2003 WRB WRX 2.3L 6spd RWD 40R	all OTS... I built the motor myself at my house, only service not done by me was the cylinder bore and the head porting. stock length eagle rods, 100mm wiseco pistons (rods and pistons hand balanced to .01 grams) ACL race bearings, 08 sti oil pump ported and shimmed 03 wrx heads, ported, polished, factory stock valves, BC springs/retainers, BC272 cams stock head bolts, stock head gaskets stock tb, stock intake manifold, DIY TGV deletes, 1300cc DW injectors, AEM EMS tuned by me.. I've had it to 9300rpm, the power noses over right at 9050-9100 on the dyno..... I ran it all last year with the perrin 3582R kit, ran 11.4 @121 @30 psi, not enough turbo for it... ran outta juice at around 8100... This year I've done a best of 11.2 @ 124 on 24 psi boost, went back @ 34 psi on race gas and blew the clutch on the first pass at 3/4 track and rolled to an 11.3 @ 117 Last edited by Turbo_Mike; 11-11-2009 at 01:41 PM.

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02-29-2008, 05:10 PM	#27
blkscooby Scooby Specialist Member#: 44422 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: SWIC Location: In ur ECU Vehicle: 08 STI FP 20g 91 and E85 #'s soon	So are you going to use stock dia pistons or bore it out for 100 mm ones?

02-29-2008, 07:13 PM	#28
Turbo_Mike Scooby Newbie Member#: 130276 Join Date: Oct 2006 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Dudley, MA Vehicle: 2003 WRB WRX 2.3L 6spd RWD 40R	I'm gonna go stock, see what happens. Really dont wonna send it to a machine shop.

03-06-2008, 03:10 PM	#32
luchin NASIOC Supporter Member#: 128862 Join Date: Oct 2006 Chapter/Region: South East Location: birmingham,al Vehicle: 2003 2.5 wi 60-1 wrb	don't use wiseco they have 8.5:1 and is way too high for hibrid the best piston is cp 8.2:1 if you don want to keep blowing your engines ... probrably you need sti cams as well i got a 2.5 sb w/2.0 head 20g fmic headers back and i never loose power at all i am pushing 23psi w/ 93 octane feels good

03-31-2009, 10:51 PM	#33
1fly05sti Scooby Newbie Member#: 151009 Join Date: Jun 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NYC Vehicle: 05 STI obp SQC#291 07 GSXR-1000	hey mike i hope mike looks cleaner than that! LOL

11-08-2009, 05:29 PM	#34
sube-trex NASIOC Supporter Member#: 97577 Join Date: Oct 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Gresham, OR--> TX	at least they were breaking for a reason. abuse

11-10-2009, 08:27 PM	#36
wrxsti.l Scooby Specialist Member#: 156973 Join Date: Aug 2007 Chapter/Region: International Location: Adelaide, Australia Vehicle: 2002 ADM WRX STi STi Black/Blue	nice So what was the final comp ratio with the wisecos? Also, what are the final specs of that build (bore, stroke etc)? And how much power are you now making? Leslie

11-11-2009, 10:03 AM	#37
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 2.4L LR 35R 00 F250 7.3L toy hauler	IIRC, he has off the shelf Wiseco (EJ257) with 75mm crank and standard 130.5mm rods...thus he has a massive quench height and a low compression ratio thanks to coming short of deck height by 2mm+. However a simple +2mm rod should get him close to an 8.0:1 CR...custom pistons (or rods) are still the only solution for properly doing a destroked EJ257, whether you go long rod or not. I still give him a thumbs up! -Micah

11-11-2009, 03:03 PM	#40
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 2.4L LR 35R 00 F250 7.3L toy hauler	have you adjusted timing on the cams at all? BC also uses the same lobe for EJ20 and EJ25 cams, despite the difference in rod ratio...some real EJ20 cams would probably make a noticeable gain in top end...that or adjusting your cam timing.

11-11-2009, 03:29 PM	#41
rexblake Scooby Newbie Member#: 178426 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Mankato, MN Vehicle: 2002 WRX ej207 hta68 working out kinks	So your running a ej205 crank in a 257 block with eagle rods and wiseco pistons? What displacement does that net you then? I'm impressed that those 272 can still make power so far up in the RPM range! I wish my short block had acl bearings in it as well, so I could rev the piss out of it.

11-11-2009, 09:51 PM	#43
soon2bblackongold Scooby Guru Member#: 81102 Join Date: Feb 2005 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Sacramento&gstmotorsports.com Vehicle: 01' BMW K1200RS 90'Maco Red Camry GST FTW	i'm jealous, i'd love a different setup like this

11-12-2009, 02:49 PM	#44
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 2.4L LR 35R 00 F250 7.3L toy hauler	correct 1 tooth = 7*

11-12-2009, 05:05 PM	#46
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 2.4L LR 35R 00 F250 7.3L toy hauler	you're going to want to retard your cam gears...as for the intake, I don't know what you have going on for cams...not sure of centerlines and all that jazz...just know that your on a lobe designed for an EJ257 I've played with cam gears on Hondas, Subies and Mitsus...changes and gains are completely dependent upon the setup but general rule is that retarding will help with higher rpm, advancing helps low end...but that's general knowledge.

11-12-2009, 05:48 PM	#47
Turbo_Mike Scooby Newbie Member#: 130276 Join Date: Oct 2006 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Dudley, MA Vehicle: 2003 WRB WRX 2.3L 6spd RWD 40R	I could probably put the cams in backwards and nothing would happen :-P I'll have the motor apart over the winter, it needs freakin valve seals, so I have some pondering to do about cams... I believe advancing the exhaust cam raises EGT which increases turbocharger efficiency at the expense of the valves. On a N/A motor retarding everything is the best gain, but I remember some conversations of the opposite being true with a big turbo high rpm motor on the exhaust side. Only one way to find out I guess :-P

11-12-2009, 08:53 PM	#48
TDagen Scooby Specialist Member#: 163648 Join Date: Nov 2007 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Minnesota, mpls Vehicle: 2002 WRX,EJ257'd,30R E85Romraided,6mt07,SEIBON	What turbo is on the car now?

11-12-2009, 09:10 PM	#49
john 1badSTI Scooby Specialist Member#: 77470 Join Date: Dec 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: grove city ohio Vehicle: 04 sti 10.64@137.5 on q16@29psi--spinning	I have had good success on a built 35r 2.5 hybrid running crower 280 nonavcs cams and jun gears on only the exhaust side.Retarding about 3 degrees the car picked up about 30whp and trq at the wheels and help spool a couple hundred rpm.

11-14-2009, 10:35 PM	#50
hobbesnapoli Scooby Newbie Member#: 221436 Join Date: Aug 2009	So this car is RWD right...?