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Old 06-16-2010, 06:44 PM   #101
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I just picked up a 98, for $3800.... :-D

which is why I'm on this stang kick. But I still love my vette
NICE I wanted to turn the cobra into a track car but since I just do HPDE at this point I cant turn my back on my sti...yet lol

steeda ext ball joints and steeda bump steer kit made a HUGE diff on how well the cobra handled.

Man u guys are making me wish I wouldnt have sold it lol.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:49 PM   #102
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http://classifieds.specmiata.com/detail.php?id=2934

If I was doing it again in SM I would buy one already built any day of the week
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:57 PM   #103
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you want something more reliable than a subaru.... that limits your choices dramatically.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:59 PM   #104
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you want something more reliable than a subaru.... that limits your choices dramatically.
I don't think it does.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:18 PM   #105
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you want something more reliable than a subaru.... that limits your choices dramatically.
Maybe stock. However, the reliability vs cost in a race car is an entirely different ballgame.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:52 PM   #106
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Sent you an email dunk. I tried not to make it a novel, but I think I failed miserably.
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:11 PM   #107
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you want something more reliable than a subaru.... that limits your choices dramatically.
Please. Most cars out there are more reliable on track than Subaru's. Subaru's are great but, the engines just don't last that long when pushed hard during track use. My buddies Civic, I built it 4 years ago maybe 5 now. It's pretty much a dedicated track car. It's turning 8400-8600 RPM's every track day. The only thing you have to do is put gas in it, change the oil and change the pads once a year. That's my idea of reliable. I suspect Miata's are just like that. The only Miata's I've seen break on track were FI and normally it was a turbo related problem.
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:14 PM   #108
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I suspect Miata's are just like that.
For the most part, they really are. Other than normal maintenance stuff that needs to be done to mine (92, 123k, stock fluids, clutch, timing belt etc), I havent had anything go wrong that I can think of that was a result of track or AutoX time.
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:16 PM   #109
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Turbo power = tons more heat = lower life-span on track = $$$$$$$$
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:41 AM   #110
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Turbo power = tons more heat = lower life-span on track = $$$$$$$$
^^

Boost on track is like dang crack -

Oh so good but you know it's going to mess you up somehow.

Also - the weight, ease of power, and modern tires/brakes/suspension are just overwhelming the Subaru chassis. Most everything struggles. And that kinda sucks btw.
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:04 AM   #111
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Please. Most cars out there are more reliable on track than Subaru's. Subaru's are great but, the engines just don't last that long when pushed hard during track use. My buddies Civic, I built it 4 years ago maybe 5 now. It's pretty much a dedicated track car. It's turning 8400-8600 RPM's every track day. The only thing you have to do is put gas in it, change the oil and change the pads once a year. That's my idea of reliable. I suspect Miata's are just like that. The only Miata's I've seen break on track were FI and normally it was a turbo related problem.
i'm glad you brought up hondas, because i'm probably more familiar with hondas than your mother is familiar with you. building a honda motor to the extent of performing on the race track and expecting it to be reliable as you say, almost makes me want to giggle to myself. unless by "built" you mean an intake and some exhaust. most of the reliability comes with doing the mods correctly. most hondas that are "reliable on the track" don't make any comparable hp/tq numbers compared to the average "subaru on the track that isn't reliable" - and then you have other variables such as.... is the internals stock? what kind of internals? how good is the person who did the work? etc.

but generally speaking, a subaru motor is pretty damn reliable for a car that makes some decent power.

and the op said "fast" and "more reliable than a subaru" - a reliable honda isn't fast. you'll realize that majority of race cars that are actually fast, aren't really reliable.

i'm not saying the subaru is one of the most reliable for a project car, but it certainly does cut your choices. but i can see why you would believe otherwise if you had bad experiences with your car.

Last edited by vinxH; 06-17-2010 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:40 AM   #112
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I don't really think our opinions are that different.

My WRX was 100% reliable, as reliable as my Civic. I did though upgrade everything to STI parts. I mean everything so, most of the weaknesses in the WRX were fixed. They way to have a fast reliable honda is sort of the way to have a fast reliable Subaru. Pick the right engine, install it, then leave the engine alone and work on other parts, like the driver and suspension. I did the STI swap and was happy enough with the power. Same thing with the Honda. Took an EK civic and did the traditional Type-R swap.

I see so many broken subaru's at the track. If you take a stock GD STI, stage 2 it (and that's all you do) and take it to the track, it's looking like there's about a 50/50 chance your head gasket's are going to start leaking. As I said in another topic. I see blown HG symptoms about every other track event. So, they're perfectly reliable, as long as you don't dick with them.

You implied they're more reliable than other track cars. That's the part I had a problem with.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:18 PM   #113
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I don't really think our opinions are that different.

My WRX was 100% reliable, as reliable as my Civic. I did though upgrade everything to STI parts. I mean everything so, most of the weaknesses in the WRX were fixed. They way to have a fast reliable honda is sort of the way to have a fast reliable Subaru. Pick the right engine, install it, then leave the engine alone and work on other parts, like the driver and suspension. I did the STI swap and was happy enough with the power. Same thing with the Honda. Took an EK civic and did the traditional Type-R swap.

I see so many broken subaru's at the track. If you take a stock GD STI, stage 2 it (and that's all you do) and take it to the track, it's looking like there's about a 50/50 chance your head gasket's are going to start leaking. As I said in another topic. I see blown HG symptoms about every other track event. So, they're perfectly reliable, as long as you don't dick with them.

You implied they're more reliable than other track cars. That's the part I had a problem with.
i don't think i said that... i said it would cut a big chunk of his choices down if he wants something fast but at the same time more reliable than a subaru.

the 50/50 chance of a stage 2 sti motor blowing a head gasket... that may be a bit of an exaggeration. the forums are a bad place to get your sample because as you already know... not everyone posts up that their car DIDNT have problems after a track event.

Last edited by vinxH; 06-17-2010 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:09 PM   #114
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the 50/50 chance of a stage 2 sti motor blowing a head gasket... that may be a bit of an exaggeration.
I go to a fairish number of track events. At least once or twice a month. I see lots of newbs and intermediate drivers driving STI's and I see many of them, stage 2, with blown head gasket symptoms. 2 guys this weekend in fact, one already had his fixed, the other had "overfilling coolant tank" symptoms which means he's got a slight leak that's just going to get worse. You don't see many STI's in the advanced group. There was one this weekend and 5-6 in the intermediate/Newb groups. Hell, I was out at VIR this time last year. Mav1c had cooling system issues (****ty aftermarket radiator), a Legacy GT was overheating every session, and an STI in the advanced group just blew his motor. All in one track event. I still remember the cloud of oil smoke as he pulled it up on the trailer. At the previous event at Summit point. A newb bought his STI out. Every time he came in, his coolant recovery tank was overflowing. Another HG on the way.

My stock STI engine, never got over 185F and ran as reliable as can be. I do change the oil every other track day (0-40 Mobil-1) and ran 100 octane to prevent detonation.

So, I think they can be reliable but, people throw on a re-flash and do nothing else, go out and run hard on the track with gas of unknown quality and their S breaks. I'm not just talking about forum posts. These are blown HG's I've diagnosed myself.

Edit: I'm not saying 50% of the STI's blow HG's, I'm, saying I see blown HG's every other track day.

Last edited by MasterKwan; 06-17-2010 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Clarification.
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:49 PM   #115
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i.e. if you wanna have a fun subie on track...start with a 94 sedan on a 5x114.3 setup and leave power low...spend money on lightweight parts
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:40 PM   #116
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New STi's have completely lost their performance value proposition in my mind.

Right now the only car after my STi I would track/time trial is a vette. After many years of greater than 15 track days a year (with a few years of 30 days), for performance value they are the best deal going dollar for dollar.

Racing costs easily twice as much as time trialing, for that I am looking hard at Spec E30, the race groups are getting to be good size and the competition is good and close without getting into spec pinata. And the price point is right for me.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:06 AM   #117
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spec pinata.
*chortle*

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Old 06-18-2010, 01:15 AM   #118
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New STi's have completely lost their performance value proposition in my mind.

Right now the only car after my STi I would track/time trial is a vette. After many years of greater than 15 track days a year (with a few years of 30 days), for performance value they are the best deal going dollar for dollar.

Racing costs easily twice as much as time trialing, for that I am looking hard at Spec E30, the race groups are getting to be good size and the competition is good and close without getting into spec pinata. And the price point is right for me.
i'm pretty sure the newer sti's are faster than the 06 sti around a track.
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:34 AM   #119
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i'm pretty sure the newer sti's are faster than the 06 sti around a track.
But they aren't.

And...

2004 MSRP 31,670 HP 300 TQ 300 Curb 3,263
2006 MSRP 33,620 HP 300 TQ 300 Curb 3,351
2010 MSRP 37,690 HP 305 TQ 290 Curb 3,373

their performance value has been lost, you end up paying too much for what you are getting performance wise.
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:45 AM   #120
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I'm with Vinx I think the new ones will crush the old, if for no other reason than you can easily fit much larger tires. GR Front and rear suspension is better than GD too.

To me, the difference between 38K and 34K isn't that huge. I'd never buy a GR, not because I don't like them but, because I'm done tracking suby's and the only reason I have to buy a fast car is to track it. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with my truck.

Wonder if Subaru will become like honda and Toyota in the next couple years and just abandon their performance cars?
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:34 AM   #121
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I'm with Vinx I think the new ones will crush the old, if for no other reason than you can easily fit much larger tires. GR Front and rear suspension is better than GD too.

To me, the difference between 38K and 34K isn't that huge. I'd never buy a GR, not because I don't like them but, because I'm done tracking suby's and the only reason I have to buy a fast car is to track it. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with my truck.

Wonder if Subaru will become like honda and Toyota in the next couple years and just abandon their performance cars?
Does a subaru really need 285s?

you can get 265s on a GD without much issue.

I fit into the newb (to track days) and have a "stage 2" STI.

We saw alot of Miatas, and a nice variety of BMW's at the my Sebring track day. It was REALLY hot out too.

I plan on (attempting) tracking my STI more, not 15 events a year but more.

Hopefully I can be proactive and avoid some of the reliability issues subarus have on track.

Dunk, do keep us posted on how your Spec miata build goes. They look like alot of work, but they look like they are a blast to drive.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:37 AM   #122
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i.e. if you wanna have a fun subie on track...start with a 94 sedan on a 5x114.3 setup and leave power low...spend money on lightweight parts
How many track days have you done in yours?

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Old 06-18-2010, 10:42 AM   #123
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Does a subaru really need 285s?
There's really no such thing as too much tire. Not for a heavy car like the Suby. I think the people who say "265 is an easy fit" are exaggerating. You can make them fit, sure. It's not that easy though. To me "fit" means no rubbing, ever.

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start with a 94 sedan on a 5x114.3 setup and leave power low
Not my idea of fun. Even the Miata's will laugh at you as they go by.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:46 AM   #124
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My stock STI engine, never got over 185F and ran as reliable as can be. I do change the oil every other track day (0-40 Mobil-1) and ran 100 octane to prevent detonation.

So, I think they can be reliable but, people throw on a re-flash and do nothing else, go out and run hard on the track with gas of unknown quality and their S breaks. I'm not just talking about forum posts. These are blown HG's I've diagnosed myself.

Edit: I'm not saying 50% of the STI's blow HG's, I'm, saying I see blown HG's every other track day.
So true. My STi has seen a lot of track time and is running strong (knock on wood). I did have the overheating issue, but that was nothing to do with the HG's, it was just a crappy Mishimoto radiator. The Koyo has been great. I think there are a few key elements to why my car has been reliable.

1.) A good, conservative tune. I had the car tuned at Mach V while Christain from Cobb was there helping Dan. I specifically requested a more conservative tune for the track. Makes a little under 300WHP. Less fuel, less boost, etc. Concentrated more on a flat torque curve.
2.) Always run 100 Octane. Yes...it gets expensive, and by now I've probably paid for a new engine from the extra cost. But it keeps the car happy and zero detonation. When I had it tuned, Christain said, "You don't have to run 100 Octane, but if you can, do it."
3.) Change the oil for every track event. Mobil 15W-50.

The real key is the first one. Like Kwan said, people throw a crappy tune on the car, push the power levels way up, and pop.

Of course now that I've actually written all this down...I'm doomed.

OK. Back on topic. Duncan...you're going to have a great time with the Spec M. I really, really want to borrow or rent one for a track day. I've ridden and and instructed a few. Total blast.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:47 AM   #125
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I go to a fairish number of track events. At least once or twice a month. I see lots of newbs and intermediate drivers driving STI's and I see many of them, stage 2, with blown head gasket symptoms. 2 guys this weekend in fact, one already had his fixed, the other had "overfilling coolant tank" symptoms which means he's got a slight leak that's just going to get worse. You don't see many STI's in the advanced group. There was one this weekend and 5-6 in the intermediate/Newb groups. Hell, I was out at VIR this time last year. Mav1c had cooling system issues (****ty aftermarket radiator), a Legacy GT was overheating every session, and an STI in the advanced group just blew his motor. All in one track event. I still remember the cloud of oil smoke as he pulled it up on the trailer. At the previous event at Summit point. A newb bought his STI out. Every time he came in, his coolant recovery tank was overflowing. Another HG on the way.

My stock STI engine, never got over 185F and ran as reliable as can be. I do change the oil every other track day (0-40 Mobil-1) and ran 100 octane to prevent detonation.

So, I think they can be reliable but, people throw on a re-flash and do nothing else, go out and run hard on the track with gas of unknown quality and their S breaks. I'm not just talking about forum posts. These are blown HG's I've diagnosed myself.

Edit: I'm not saying 50% of the STI's blow HG's, I'm, saying I see blown HG's every other track day.

It's not just motor issues either. When you start upping the HP of these cars you start running into weak spot after weak spot. You can read through some of my history for details. It's heat that becomes the real killer. On my race car I had to wrap anything within 12" of a heat source with reflective wrap to stop it melting. Until I finally got the setup perfect I was burning through wheel bearings, tie rods, ball joints, and axle boots wit alarming frequency. With the big tires and the weak 04 bearings I was actually melting the plastic cage on the bearing and grinding up the rollers into the races.

If you want to track your STI, I suggest you leave the motor stock. MAV1C and MasterKwan are both good examples of how reliable the cars can be if you leave the powertrains relatively stock. Add HP and your costs go up dramatically.

-Duncan
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