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10-22-2010, 02:04 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 168654
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Phoenix
Vehicle:2005 WRX some form of black |
Sleeving a cracked cylinder?
I haven't been able to find much info on this subject, but what are the necisary precautions when sleeving a block with a cylinder that cracked? Should\can the block be welded? Is there a possibility of the block still being trash after being welded, and are there any tests the machine shop can do to check as to how severe/extensive the crack actually is?
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10-22-2010, 02:55 PM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:04 sti 10.41@141 on e85@ 30psi--spinning |
As far as I know once the cylinder is cracked(compromised)it is not sleevable because the block has to have all its strength because the sleeves go in with a .003-.004 press fit.
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10-22-2010, 04:27 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 120641
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Vehicle:05 HTA3586,BB 2.5L CGM |
Agreed^^^^ Plus its cheaper to just buy a different case.
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10-22-2010, 05:40 PM | #4 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 168654
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Phoenix
Vehicle:2005 WRX some form of black |
Quote:
Now I can understand the crack being an issue if it extends too far towards the crank, but what if it appears to be isolated near the top of the bore? Since most of the stock sleeve is removed entirely anyways, how can one know for sure if the remainder has been compromised? Can a sonic test provide the necessary information? I have seen a few posts(three maybe) that state the block should simply be welded first, but no further information or apparent validation of this method. |
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10-22-2010, 07:34 PM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 25952
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Under your hood :-)
Vehicle:1995 Impreza Coupe w/ "Extras" :-) |
I would recommend calling darton and asking them. If they tell you it's no good, then I have a good bare case I'll sell you. I'll even ship it directly to darton for you if they're doing your sleeves.
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10-22-2010, 10:35 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:04 sti 10.41@141 on e85@ 30psi--spinning |
When they machine the block for the sleeves they do not remove all the aluminum around the factory sleeve and the darton sleeve has to have a strong shelf to sit on at the top in the middle and at the bottom and if the cases are compromised in any of these areas the sleeve will not have the support to stay in place and will move around and drop.Like posted above you are better off buying a used block for 3 to 4 hundred and have it sleeved instead of using a block thats questionable.If you are trying to do a sleeved block by trying to save money by reusing your cracked block---FORGET IT.
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10-23-2010, 03:31 PM | #7 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 120641
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Vehicle:05 HTA3586,BB 2.5L CGM |
Definately, why short yourself in a big build where the integraty could be compromised vs buy wrx_driver_2002's block and have a strong base platform with no questions. Trust me I just went through a major loss on a build because I substandard a builder vs paying a bit extra and having no problems. BTW I know it was mentioned before but make sure to have the main line checked after sleeves as it was found as a contributer to my builds failure. My mainlines where supposed to be checked but the builder failed to do so and missed my mains all being way out after sleeves where installed.
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10-23-2010, 03:45 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 77470
Join Date: Dec 2004
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: grove city ohio
Vehicle:04 sti 10.41@141 on e85@ 30psi--spinning |
^^^yes The Mains Have To Be Checked After Sleeving And Most Of The Time Have To Be Lined Honed To Make True Again.
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10-25-2010, 10:20 PM | #9 |
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Location: Grand Rapids MI
Vehicle:03WR rallycarFXTleg PrimerGrey |
Call element tuning. They will tell you why you shouldn't sleeve your engine.
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10-26-2010, 09:47 PM | #10 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 120641
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Vehicle:05 HTA3586,BB 2.5L CGM |
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10-26-2010, 11:08 PM | #11 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 5810
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Tri-State
Location: Easton PA
Vehicle:2001 S366 2.5RS |
I have a customers engine being sleeved as we speak. This isn't something to have your local shmo machine shop do. I send my stuff right to Darton. Pay the money and get it done right
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10-26-2010, 11:35 PM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 120641
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Vehicle:05 HTA3586,BB 2.5L CGM |
Exactly, Darton direct the only way for sure...
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10-27-2010, 12:11 AM | #13 |
Scooby Guru
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Tri-State
Location: Tuning 8/9sec Subies all over
Vehicle:10.8 XT+9.2@155 GR+ 9.1/157mph 2015 STI |
I will give you the exact measurement tomorrow, but if the crack is at the very top you can sleeve it. The top 1/2-3/4" section of the Darton sleeve requires cutting out the complete original sleeve. If the crack is at the top and only goes down a little bit it will be cut out anyway. You just have to make sure the crack doesn't keep going the way down. Also if the crack is only in the inner liner and doesnt reach the outside of the OEM sleeve you can also still sleeve it since it will be machined away.
Jr |
10-27-2010, 03:15 AM | #14 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 168654
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: Phoenix
Vehicle:2005 WRX some form of black |
I will try to get pictures and or measurements here in a couple days. Darton has asked for pictures as well before they can answer so I guess they will be able to tell me what I need. After much more research I have seen how critical the stock liner is(at least for darton/dry sleeves), and how it could crack fairly easily from a sleeve being pressed in.
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04-30-2012, 06:43 PM | #15 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 146635
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region:
E. Canada
Location: Aurora, ON
Vehicle:06 WRX STI Satin White Pearl + |
Quote:
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04-30-2012, 10:21 PM | #16 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 200987
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: VA
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Quote:
Which Darton, East or West? |
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10-27-2010, 02:34 PM | #17 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 171778
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Location: NJ
Vehicle:2002 Snail Wagon Gray |
1/2" is number. Just measured them on a block we are installing sleeves on
Jr |
10-30-2010, 05:39 AM | #18 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 27458
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sydney
Vehicle:2003 STI Blue |
I cracked my block back in 2005, had it welded up, sleeved, pressure tested and after a few rebuilds for various different reasons and about 70,000km later its still as strong as ever. All the welding and sleeving was done by PMS in Qld Australia.
If its done right you wont have any future problems with it, i speak with first hand experience! |
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