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Old 07-02-2002, 06:42 PM   #1
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Default Ok is it just me?

Ok I am just wondering why we dont have a professional rally league? Rally is the second most watched motorsport event in the US "poll by motortrend". You will have a huge increase in people wanting to rally race if they have bigger purses. I think the most I have seen to winning a rally here in the united states is like 3,000. Nascars is huge!!!!!!!!!! Someone needs to step up and get some tv station to start prodcasting to people who cant get speed channel and start a profesional rally racing series here!
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Old 07-02-2002, 07:23 PM   #2
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There is a school of thought in the rally community that bigger is most definitely NOT better.

And you won't win many fans comparing rally to NASCAR. NASCAR is like a shopping mall - everyone looks the same, dresses the same, drives basically the same car, has the same stoopid southern accent, the tracks are the same, etc. Who wants more of that? oh yeah - sheep.

I like being different. Just like everyone else.
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Old 07-02-2002, 07:31 PM   #3
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When I was talking about nascar, I was only talking about their coverage. I am just saying if they have a profesional league. WIth higher prize money more people can do it without being broke. If you have more americans racing we might actually have one in WRC. Most the people in SCCA are people from other countrys in ProRally. You see unlike nascar you can turn many cars into rally cars. More sponsors,money= MOre cars, More drivers, cheaper parts.
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Old 07-02-2002, 09:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRXMaster
When I was talking about nascar, I was only talking about their coverage. I am just saying if they have a profesional league. WIth higher prize money more people can do it without being broke. If you have more americans racing we might actually have one in WRC. Most the people in SCCA are people from other countrys in ProRally. You see unlike nascar you can turn many cars into rally cars. More sponsors,money= MOre cars, More drivers, cheaper parts.
Rally, as currently run by the SCCA can never be like that. It's a sport governed by a not-for-profit club, and organized nearly entirely by volunteers. It's not uncommon for organizers to work nearly year-round on a rally and find themselves short on volunteers and money when the big day finally comes. Those people barely have enough time to do what's required... let alone wine-and-dine sponsors. We should be thankful that we have what we do!

And, before I forget, nearly all the glitz-and-glammor that Nazcar enjoys is based (both directly and indirectly) on media exposure. Rally here will never get that sort of media attention, and for good reason. Because of the way the sport is set up, it's nearly impossible to televise any sort of "real time" or "live" event. Sponsors tend to be less enthusiastic about something that is presented best a month later after a long editing process.

So, I guess I'm not disagreeing with you... but I don't think it can ever really happen here. And, like Mike says, there are a lot of folks who are fine with that.
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Old 07-02-2002, 09:29 PM   #5
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Default If the british can do World Rally I am sure we can

If the British are capible of getting a good prodcast out of the World Rally I am sure Americans can. We came up with brodcasting in the first place. I am just saying if someone put some time and money into planning a rally championship, there would be sponsors after it. Lets see if car companys in world rally think that having their cars in the championship will earn them profits. I am sure that Coke or other companys would dive into that. YOu need a series and that would happen. Alot of the people in SCCA Prorally are either sponsored, Have alot of money, from other countries. How can you get new talent when its limited to only the few and lucky people.
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Old 07-02-2002, 09:33 PM   #6
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[quote]Originally posted by Axiochus
[b]


And, before I forget, nearly all the glitz-and-glammor that Nazcar enjoys is based (both directly and indirectly) on media exposure. Rally here will never get that sort of media attention, and for good reason. Because of the way the sport is set up, it's nearly impossible to televise any sort of "real time" or "live" event. Sponsors tend to be less enthusiastic about something that is presented best a month later after a long editing process.



Its not impossible to get real time from a rally race. If you can tape the baja race real time, it shouldnt be too hard to tape a rally race. Your taping 1 car at a time in intervals. SCCA is a club. I am talking about making a series like the one in England.
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Old 07-02-2002, 11:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRXMaster
WIth higher prize money more people can do it without being broke.
I strongly disagree. More prize money will mean it will more people going after that money, more competition just to enter a rally, higher entry fees, and more barriers of enter into the sport. People will spend a crapload of money to win just a little bit.

Quote:
Originally posted by WRXMaster
Most the people in SCCA are people from other countrys in ProRally. You see unlike nascar you can turn many cars into rally cars. More sponsors,money= MOre cars, More drivers, cheaper parts.
Where did you get this statistic? Most of the Prorally drivers are Amurican. Yes, there are
some foreigner drivers, but they are not the majority.

Quote:
Originally posted by WRXMaster
You see unlike nascar you can turn many cars into rally cars. More sponsors,money= MOre cars, More drivers, cheaper parts.
That's a pretty big leap you're making there. I don't buy it.

You seem to be pretty enthusiastic about rally. I think you should actually get involved with it, go to one, work a stage, talk to some of the drivers. Your thoughts on this matter just might change.
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Old 07-03-2002, 05:54 AM   #8
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There's NASCAR, and then there's stock car racing. Right now, rally is stock car racing, like you might see at Bob's Speedway just outside of town. I'm sure that those guys have almost as much comraderie as rally people.

There's room for both - but if rally grows any faster it'll probably violently split in two.

"Everybody to the limit! Come on fhqwhgads!"
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Old 07-03-2002, 08:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anson
, has the same stoopid southern accent,

Thanks for insulting some i-club members who are southern, y'all .


I still agree with the train of thought that smaller is better, and I would rather see people who are into it rather than people going,

"Man, I can't wait to see one of 'dem sons'a biotches hit that thar tree. I tell ya' boy, it's like a fox to a chicken coop. Don't understand why i'd like that NASCAR stuff when this is more like 'dem ol' moonshine days. I think I got'sta get get tha' durn Charger out and show those boys how to drive dirt roads."

Not pleasant. : )
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Old 07-03-2002, 10:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Anson



Where did you get this statistic? Most of the Prorally drivers are Amurican. Yes, there are
some foreigner drivers, but they are not the majority.



All the winning ones are now foreign.
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Old 07-03-2002, 01:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by y2k4door



All the winning ones are now foreign.
As a club Rally navvie, how can you say that?

Current standing off of Special Stage (drivers only):

Woodner Cup:

1. Lauchlin O'Sullivan 83
2. Eric Burmeister 49
3. Jeff Field 37

Open:

1. David Higgins 89
2. Mark Lovell 64
3. Mark Higgins 58

Group N:

1. Ralph Kosmides 22
2. Mark Utecht 14
3. Craig Peeper 12

Production GT:

1. Bob Henderson 61
2. Eoin McGeough 44
3. Bruce Davis 31

Production:

1. Jeff Field 62
2. Jon Hamilton 57
3. Jamie Thomas 28

Group 5:

1. Dave Hintz 61
2. Al Kaumehewa 39
3. Doug Shepherd 22

Group 2:

1. Lauchlin O'Sullivan 90
2. Eric Burmeister 64
3. Randy Bailey 22


Although there are some classes dominated by the ferrin folks, I don't think you can say that all the winning drivers aren't natives.
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Old 07-03-2002, 01:53 PM   #12
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Look at Open Class. Isnt that good enough? In the grand scheme of things Gr. 2, Gr. 5. and P arent that important when looking at going to a world-recognized series.
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Old 07-03-2002, 01:59 PM   #13
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I'm going to #311 for saying this, but:
Are you jealous of the foreigners because they are better than you?

The top three at STPR were US drivers. 8 out of the top 10 were Muricans.

7 of the top 10 at Rim were 'merricans.

7 of the top 10 at Oregon Trails were immigrants to this great land of ours. I mean, they were Americans.

Only four 4 US boys in the top 10 at Cherokee. Damn those Polish and Canadian bastards. D@MN THEM ALL TO #311! Wait, Canadians are Americans, too. Hmm.

7 of the top 10 at Sno*Drift were US residents.

Last edited by jmullan; 07-03-2002 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 07-03-2002, 02:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmullan
I'm going to #311 for saying this, but:
Are you jealous of the foreigners because they are better than you?
Yes.
I dont dispute that there are some great American drivers. Who would? It's obviously just a matter of experience. The Europeans have more. But if we have a series flooded with European drivers that are taking the seats of all the sponsored rides how are our fellow countrymen supposed to ever get to the top level of competition?
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Old 07-03-2002, 07:30 PM   #15
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Exactly what I was trying to get at. I was talking to one of the teachers at the big rally school in florida. The guy was saying how prorally is extra practice for the europeans. Rally is growning there is nothing you can do about it. I just wish I could finsih with my business MBA and start a rally series.

I just feel if it got bigger and more cash. It will be 5x's more exciting, better technology, more cars then the usual few.
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Old 07-03-2002, 07:31 PM   #16
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Default Rallying around the flag?

Quote:
I dont dispute that there are some great American drivers.
I do. Define "great".

There are some good American drivers, but don't confuse the minor leagues with the show. Of course, if rallying becomes more popular then one of the good will eventually graduate. Remember, many (not necessarily all) of the foreign drivers working over here are, how can I put this without putting them down, are second stringers. Sure, some of them in turn may eventually move up. They might be good, but rather like 2% milk, they aren't the cream.
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Old 07-03-2002, 10:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by HoRo1


I do. Define "great".

There are some good American drivers, but don't confuse the minor leagues with the show. Of course, if rallying becomes more popular then one of the good will eventually graduate. Remember, many (not necessarily all) of the foreign drivers working over here are, how can I put this without putting them down, are second stringers. Sure, some of them in turn may eventually move up. They might be good, but rather like 2% milk, they aren't the cream.

Ever heard of John Buffum? How about Tim O'Neil? Pat Richard(if were counting Canadians)?
I also wouldnt consider the Higgins brothers second stringers. Sure, they arent going to be #1 drivers for Peugeot or Subaru, but they are WRC caliber drivers from what Ive read about them.
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Old 07-04-2002, 10:59 AM   #18
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To me "great" means just that, not just good. Most of the WRC drivers are very good, only a few, and a select few at that, can be considered great. Same in F1, most are exceptionally talented, but only a couple are great.

What I'm getting at is that big fishes in small ponds are well, big fishes in small ponds. I think that the truly competitive drivers today are laying the foundation for some youngster, maybe not yet born, to grow into a genuine threat in WRC or whatever it is called then - if he/she doesn't get sucked into NASCAR or some open-wheeled series.
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Old 07-04-2002, 01:18 PM   #19
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Here in the UK there are a number of rally series as well as different categories within them. They are always well attended by spectators and the bigger series get a lot of TV coverage.

A close friend of mine (Mintex champion last year) has been testing the live broadcast equipment during some of this year's events. It is perfectly possible to give as good a live in-car coverage, even over poor terrain, as say that you would get from cars on oval racing. The technology is there and I am sure if we can do it, you can.

If the USA wants to be taken seriously in rallying then it has to be professional and run under accepted rules. Using pace notes is a good place to start, rather than have the navigator along for moral support and ballast. The public view of rallying in the US will change as soon as you have a serious contender in the WRC, but you need to 'start them young' under the right conditions.

I left rallying quite a few years back as the costs were getting out of control. It isn't cheap, so you need series and individual sponsors to make it work. There is nothing wrong with that. What then happens is that drivers in club events work their way into the professional series, where they are more likely to get sponsorship because of their performance at club level.

You need one big series sponsor, like Goodyear, Mintex, Ford, etc. They want the cudos of their name being associated with the event - Fedex and Cart is a good example. Entrants will have everything from Joe's Diner to Subaru sponsoring them.

Sorry boys, but you have to think professional, as a well-meaning bunch of amateurs will never get you into the world rally scene no matter how good they are.

Where did I end up after rallying? Circuit racing in single seaters and saloons. Still very expensive but I have not managed to hit a tree on the track yet! I do it purely for fun these days.

Ken
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