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04-30-2007, 04:18 PM | #1 |
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Vehicle:04 GT3076 2.1 Stroker = Broken 3rd |
Does anyone have the LGT 1-2, wrx 3-4-5 combo or similar in and driving? 4.11 Fin Drv
There is alot of talk about this combo and im just curious, does anyone have it done yet?
I blew 3rd gear last sat 4-28-07. I'm pushing about 270 whp and over 300 wtq with my 2.5 vf22 setup. I am planning to upgrade to an fpgreen. Check for post # 3 for all the believed parts needed for this swap from a 04 wrx tranny to the LGT-WRX combo tranny. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...87&postcount=3
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Last edited by NITROS; 04-30-2007 at 06:00 PM. |
04-30-2007, 04:49 PM | #2 |
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I have an older STi trans, which is the same 1st/2nd. I love the ratios in 1st/2nd, BIG difference. I also have a 4.44 FD, but I think the 4.11 FD is a good balance between the kinda deep wrx 3.90 and the high winding 4.44
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04-30-2007, 05:57 PM | #3 |
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Vehicle:04 GT3076 2.1 Stroker = Broken 3rd |
I like to thank both Tristan and Jeremy (TheKingOfParts) over at Fred Beans Subaru for a great deal.
32231-AA950 -- LGT 1ST GEAR 32251-AA620 -- LGT 2ND GEAR 32650-AA032 -- LGT 1-2 SYNCHRO SET 32214-AA720 -- 04 WRX 3/4TH GEAR SET 32650-AA051 -- 04 WRX SYNCHRO SET 32201-AB020 -- MAIN SHAFT 32219-AA320 -- GEAR AND HUB SET 38100-AB340 -- 4.11 F/D SET 32714-AA190 -- SPEEDO GEAR |
04-30-2007, 06:07 PM | #4 |
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When are we pulling it out?
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05-01-2007, 11:29 AM | #5 |
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I thought there was a 1st gear dual-cone synchro jut for first. I could be wrong, but you may want to double check.
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05-01-2007, 12:25 PM | #6 |
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what would the advantage be changing the final to 4.11 from the stock 3.90? i mean besides the acceleration. ive read that it doesnt stress the gears as much but i dont understand why.
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05-01-2007, 12:55 PM | #7 |
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Think about how leverage works.
If you are using a pry-bar: A longer pry-bar gives you more leverage, and thus makes it easier for you to move something. Gears work the same way, basically a circular lever. 4.11:1 spins the wheels slower for any given engine rpm than 3.90:1, but the 4.11:1 ratio allows the engine exert more leverage on the wheels. So, very basically, power is transfered from the engine through the clutch to gearset (gears 1-5) then through the final drive gearing (4.11:1 ratio in this case). Gears 1-5 are what usually break, allowing them to have more leverage decreases stress. Good example: When you ride a bicycle up a hill and shift a few gears to make it easier, you are changing your final drive gear ratio. Think of your legs as the gearset, you are pedaling more, but the work you are doing is not as hard and your legs do not have to exert so much force in order to move the bike. |
05-01-2007, 03:19 PM | #8 |
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Vehicle:04 GT3076 2.1 Stroker = Broken 3rd |
^ This may or may not be true. I hope it is but there are alot of other that argue that the 4.11 will not help with strength/ reliability.
But because the gear ratios are so much closer to each other the shock load should be so high for the 1 -2 -3 shifts. But by doing the 4.11 FD i will now be able cruise at 35-40 miles at approximately 2.5k rpm a little bit more into my power band so no down shifting. |
05-01-2007, 04:19 PM | #9 |
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May or may not be true!?!? There are folks that are skeptical about the existance of leverage? Isn't that a bit like saying "I don't believe in gravity?"
-I dare you to ride a bike up a hill in in the hardest gear -Now change down a few gears (increasing gear ratio) and try again -You notice that you have to pedal more to get the same speed, however, are your legs having to deal with as much resistance the second time? No. -There... proven. Can somebody please chime in that has taken a high school physics course so I can get some support here? You realize that if this were not true there would be no reason for cars to have variable gearing right? That and if this suddenly ceased to be true the fabric of existance would go all kinds of crazy... Like a kid on one side a see-saw would get launched into outer space, automotive brake pads would shoot out of the wheels instead of squeezing the rotors, crow-bars would suck you into the crack you are trying to pry apart, and breaker bars would make it harder to un-bolt things. That would be no good. Last edited by jhargis; 05-01-2007 at 04:27 PM. |
05-01-2007, 04:39 PM | #10 |
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05-01-2007, 05:20 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
Now, like everything there is a down side to a taller FD. While acceleration may be more brisk, you'll run through the gears more quickly, and your RPMs will be higher at a given speed than with a shorter FD. In the end, this hurts the gas milage for two reasons. First - the higher RPM for a given speed. Second, the YAHOO!! factor of taking off. Me? It would be all YAHOO!! |
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05-01-2007, 05:34 PM | #12 |
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^^^ Stupid universe with everything always having trade-offs
Bingo... my 4.44s may knock a couple of mpg out of the picture (3500rpm @ 75mph may not be the best thing these days), but working the clutch is much easier and I have that small additional piece of mind that this transmission might actually hold together under reasonable driving conditions. That extra "yahoo" level is pretty nifty too. |
05-01-2007, 06:14 PM | #13 |
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thanks for explaination guys i appreciate that
sorry, one more question.... would i have to change anything with the front or rear diff's if i go to 4.11fd? Last edited by romanlynch; 05-01-2007 at 11:48 PM. |
05-02-2007, 06:02 PM | #14 |
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05-03-2007, 02:45 AM | #15 |
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just go to andrewtech an put a dogbox in you will never worry about your tranny again
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05-03-2007, 03:01 AM | #16 |
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+1 for dog engagement. ;P Let the big dogbox eat! Only thing about dog engagement box......you have to shift like an asshat the rest of your life because there will be no "easing it into gear" its vroom, jerk, vroom, jerk, vroom, jerk. (IMO its ok to drive like that since the dogbox is built to do that, but local popo's don't like it so much) However, yes, you'll never worry about your tranny again, they rock.
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05-03-2007, 03:21 AM | #17 |
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rhetorical, don't actually answer it lol
geez wth is the magic/curse with vf22s and 3rd gear.... Ever since the wrx came out and people started throwing those on their cars... POOF 3rd goes bye bye.
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05-03-2007, 12:35 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
Besides, if the OP had PPG money to blow, I'm sure he wouldn't be asking about a low buck alternative to RA gears. |
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05-03-2007, 01:51 PM | #19 |
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^-- +1 to that. maybe when im making a lot more money and have those pesky bills paid off i *might* think about getting the ppg gearset. however for my whoping stage .5 wrx i think the lgt set-up is good enough.
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05-03-2007, 02:55 PM | #20 | |
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Vehicle:04 GT3076 2.1 Stroker = Broken 3rd |
Quote:
Until i can get scientific proof (Actual test results) that the gears have less stress i will continue to say may or may not be true. To me it sounds honestly that the engine has to do less work. And i have reason to believe my 3rd went because of driveline shock because of crappy ecu programming in the stock 04 ecu. I had shocked my tranny dozens of times during throttle lift, before i got my utec. Then by doubling my TQ/HP output that finished it. I like the fact that the gear ratios are better paired and that my third gear will get less shock force during shifts. That is what I am betting on to keep it together. Honestly, I believe a 04 wrx tranny can hold up really well provided that you installed a EM to get rid of driveline shock on lift when you bought the car. My friend (drinkav8) with a gt30r kit put down somewhere in the range of 360 whp and his tranny lasted longer then mine. I only had about 36k on mine; he had 80k. And he shifts the damn car. I grannyshift and always slip in clutch during shifts. Him no so much. But his car is now wrecked so we dunno how much longer it would have lasted. (He had an EM on the car almost immediately after he bought it.) My 3rd gear went during normal driving conditions and I wasnt on it or anything. Last edited by NITROS; 05-03-2007 at 03:32 PM. |
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05-03-2007, 03:44 PM | #21 | |
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Quote:
The reason it lets go under "normal" driving conditions is because it had already been damaged during a hard shift/shockload and was just waiting to let go. The part in red with a bad shift is what killed your transmission. And just to reiterate what everyone has said... Lower FDs will help relieve stress on your transmission. I don't know what part of that you don't get? Think of it this way if you'd like instead of the crowbar analogy... If you were using 16" wheels and romping on it, the engine is free to move the car quite quickly, and everything "moves along smoothly" for lack of a better term (running on a couple hours sleep here sorry lol). Now, throw on a set of 25" wheels and tires (if that was even possible) and see how much work your engine has to do (against the poor tranny) to get the car moving. This increase in force necessary to move the car translates to more force on your gears. Less stress with smaller rims (lower FD) = less chance of gears snappin'. |
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05-03-2007, 04:52 PM | #22 |
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^^^ By golly, I think this chap's got it.
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05-04-2007, 12:29 AM | #23 | |
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Quote:
but i blew my third gear when i was stock 9000 miles on the car under normal driving conditions |
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05-04-2007, 01:29 AM | #24 |
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I want someone with "new" vehicles to trade in some "old" trannies and see what happens. I am running 350-400 torque in a 1990 5mt...... Why hasnt something 17 years old broken yet with over 100 drag launches?
Anywho, good luck! |
05-04-2007, 02:27 AM | #25 |
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LOL it's funny when people try to argue that FD ratio has no effect on transmission stress/life. What part of physics 101 don't you understand?
You're trading speed for force - horsepower vs. torque, the same principle. You don't need to "test" it - you're talking about mechanical truths here... |
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