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Old 04-21-2014, 07:25 PM   #451
A-man07
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424whp/382wtq GT3076

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Ah yes. You're running a nice Sparco TMIC and a wee bit more boost too. I think you'll find your peak hp number higher (which makes sense since your turbo is pushing +12lbs/min more airflow), but comparing total area under the curve will show the differences. We've had our shop cars on EFIs dyno as well. I can tell you with certainty that Prime Motoring's dyno reads significantly lower. ~275 for a high stage II car, EFI's dyno reads low 300's for a similar setup. If I get the time, I'll try to get some pulls on their dyno this summer. Having that info on the dyno database is great for doing comparisons and they've got LOTS of setups/cars on there.

Keep in mind I'm not saying this setup makes more power than a rotated setup. I am saying similar power at less expense. The new TMIC should be showing up any day so we can reduce/eliminate the heat soak and timing being pulled at upper RPMs.
Hope I didn't come across as "mine is better than yours" which was not my intention. I also enjoy comparing setups and find your new one here quite intriguing. I think this product will be popular as it should be and eventually we'll all be running a Killer Bee setup of some variety . I have come to see the limitations of my current setup, proud though I was of it 3 years ago. I very much want to run your header with my setup and also the front mount kit.

Best.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:16 PM   #452
KillerBMotorsport
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^ no we're good. I like comparing data. If our product isn't meeting goals we're revise, redesign or scrap it
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:21 PM   #453
Scuby04STi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
^ no we're good. I like comparing data. If our product isn't meeting goals we're revise, redesign or scrap it
Pretty sure "A-man07" has a GT not a GTX, incase that was not noted. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:48 PM   #454
manitou
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OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

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This Killer B Tial adapter plate was really my idea, not to say that Chris had not thought of the possibility of making a Tial turbine housing fit into the Subaru stock location position. Angel Ortiz/Horse Power Techs and I were looking at the Tial housing and and size geometry of the Subaru stock location turbine housings. I felt that we could make the Tial housing fit in this location and we were planning to make an adapter to accomplish this task. I spoke with Mike Malin at Blouch Turbos about my idea and Mike had already machined a few Tial housings to fit the Dom 4's (and 3.5) 64mm Garrett turbine wheel. His customers had rotated them but we all concurred that the Tial housing dimensions would fit the stock location because of it's compact overall size. I am runing an EWG with the stock location turbo and Blouch recommends this with the Dom 3.5 and up turbos.

The Subaru stock location turbine housing is the Achilles heel of the SL turbo and it's really the only thing holding back the power and quicker spool up to 55-70 lb./ minute turbos. Even the 10cm SL housings create more turbulence and back pressure than a comparable size T3 or Tial v-band housing. Above the 70 lb. / minute flow then the inlet tube will become the restriction with the 3" or FP's 84mm inlet tubes. Turbos bigger that 65-70 lbs. will require bigger inlets and surge porting to prevent compressor surge. The limits of the inlet tube will become the restriction in making higher power in the stock location.

I approached Chris about my idea and he said that he had been considering this idea to fit a Garrett CHRA turbo int the SL. We kicked the idea around and poissible designs. Chris said he thought he could make it work and forged ahead and created this adapter plate with a plate style clamp to squeeze the Tial v-band into the adapter plate. The adapter needs to bolt to the SL up pipe with a gasket. The Tial housing can then be clamped to the adapter plate and a new down pipe fitted to the back of the Tial housing will complete the coversion besides additional tuning. Everything else that someone might already have will work just as it had before with the Subaru SL turbine housing.

The Tial housing on a SL turbo should prove to make more power with less boost because of the more efficient turbine housing and less back pressure.

As some of you may know I have a fairly efficient stock location build making fairly big power with a Dom 3.5xtr/8cm housing. I will be testing this Killer B adapter soon on my Dom 3.5 xtr turbo and I will be able to show a comparison between the Suabru SL 8cm turbine housing and the Tial housing on the same dyno. I plan on using the Tial 30r .82 AR housing (machined to fit the Blouch/ Garrett 64mm turbine wheel) and I believe that we will not see a degradation in spool but we will see higher power with less boost. I could be wrong but based on what we know this should be a very good modification to the Garrett CHRA Subaru stock location turbos.

Last edited by manitou; 04-21-2014 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:55 PM   #455
manitou
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OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
Pretty sure "A-man07" has a GT not a GTX, incase that was not noted. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure.
The GT3076R turbo is rated at around 53-55 lbs./ minute as compared to the GTX3076's 64-65 lb./ minute rating. Both turbos share the same turbine wheel but the GTX has a higher capacity to flow air because of the improve aero of the GTX wheel. Given the same conditions and turbine housings the GT turbo should spool faster than the GTX turbo because of it's lower rated compressor wheel.

I'm not sure what the GTX3067 flows as it's a new design from Garrett but my guess is it's probably pretty close to the GT3076R. Chris told me that Garrett said the GTX3067 will flow close to what the GTX3071 flows because the 67mm compressor wheel is actually a more efficient design.

Last edited by manitou; 04-21-2014 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:06 PM   #456
manitou
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OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

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Chris I think this Tial housing adapter plate actually warrants having it's own thread to do it justice.

Looking at what BW is doing with the EFR's and the new EFR 7163 SL turbo with the EWG v-band in/ out turbine housing. I think this Tial adapter plate on these Garrett GTX30R/ GT30R turbos will give as good if not better results in the stock location.

The Garrett turbos will measure 7.5" front of the CH to back of the TH as compared to 9.5" F2B of the BW EFR 7163 with the EWG housing. The extra 2" of room will allow a more efficient down pipe design with smoother bends and less turbulent flow as compared to the down pipe of the EFR turbo.

Last edited by manitou; 04-22-2014 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:47 PM   #457
NA STI
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The 67mm gtx wheel flows 47 lb/min and has only 10 full blades vs 11 blades of the gtx71mm + wheels.

Side note for you nerds, the billet gtx71mm compressor wheel actually weighs more then the old gt71mm compressor wheel.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:56 PM   #458
manitou
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OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

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Are you quoting the 67mm gtx compressor map rating? I said I'm not sure what the GTX3067 turbo is rated at.

Hahaha, it takes a nerd to know a nerd!

Last edited by manitou; 04-21-2014 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:56 PM   #459
manitou
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OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

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OK, I just looked up the GTX3067. The comp map says. 47-48 lb.

Last edited by manitou; 04-21-2014 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:10 AM   #460
NA STI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Are you quoting the 67mm gtx compressor map rating? I said I'm not sure what the GTX3067 turbo is rated at.

Hahaha, it takes a nerd to know a nerd!
lol ill be the first to tell you im a nerd too

But the compressor map between the gtx2867 and gtx3067 are shown as the same, as they both use the same compressor wheel and compressor cover. 47lbs/min at peak on the map.

gtx3067 to gtx3071 is actually a huge jump in flow and response. 47lb/min to 57 lb/min. That would be cool if they made a lighter 10 blade 71mm gtx wheel to help fill the gap and flow right in the 53lb/min range
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:46 AM   #461
Phatron
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I'm tuning another 07sti right now with a 16g and your buddies 07sti gtx3071 is out spooling it by 600rpm and making 60whp more.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:18 AM   #462
NA STI
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I'm tuning another 07sti right now with a 16g and your buddies 07sti gtx3071 is out spooling it by 600rpm and making 60whp more.
Good to hear Ron I setup that car super legit for him. We'll have to make a thread on it once we get done tuning it on E85

These tial vband ewg exhaust housings are key. They also are super smooth castings inside and out, Tial made these things to perfection IMO.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:06 AM   #463
KillerBMotorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
Chris I think this Tial housing adapter plate actually warrants having it's own thread to do it justice.
Agreed.... LINK

I'll be updating this thread as well as things progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA STI View Post
The 67mm gtx wheel flows 47 lb/min and has only 10 full blades vs 11 blades of the gtx71mm + wheels.

Side note for you nerds, the billet gtx71mm compressor wheel actually weighs more then the old gt71mm compressor wheel.
^ Correct!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I'm tuning another 07sti right now with a 16g and your buddies 07sti gtx3071 is out spooling it by 600rpm and making 60whp more.
Odd to hear such a bold statement considering the assumed understanding of different cars, different dynos, different setups, different $ invested, different tunes, etc. not bashing, just surprised to hear this coming from you.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate data, just more interested in constructive comparisons vs a peeing contest. Never said this is the best most efficient setup out there, if that was the goal... see low mount project. The goal here is to outperform aftermarket OEM location housings and cost less than rotated. A financial middle ground between the two with performance enhancements as well. Performance wise it seems like it will favor the rotated end of things vs OEM housing. If you've got two setups that outperform it, that's great that you can put together a package like that. As a generalization I don't believe this is the norm, and the preliminary results appear promising to provide significant improvements vs the aftermarket OEM housing. Time will tell.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:23 AM   #464
manitou
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2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I'm tuning another 07sti right now with a 16g and your buddies 07sti gtx3071 is out spooling it by 600rpm and making 60whp more.
What hot side housing and AR is he using on that GTX3071? When does it make 300wtq?
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Old 04-26-2014, 08:37 AM   #465
KillerBMotorsport
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waiting
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Old 04-26-2014, 10:47 AM   #466
manitou
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OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

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as fast as we can!

Earth to Ron, do you copy?
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Old 04-26-2014, 04:46 PM   #467
VladiWrX
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On my 5th scoob
and lovin it

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so are these ever going to not be on back order?
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Old 04-27-2014, 02:04 PM   #468
NA STI
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lol... Ron is on vacation for a few days, I think he will be back tonight. We are not even done on the 93 map on this gtx3071 07 sti yet. Im the one that put the car together and im etuning it for him as well thru Ron, this is one of my good friends car.

We dont care about 93 numbers as we have a local e85 station so I just told Ron to tune to like 20-21psi. We just did a 4th gear pull the other day ~20.5psi. The car hit exactly 300wtq @ 3064rpms.

We will make a thread on the car soon once we are done with the 93 map and e85 map, car is on a .63 tial housing, gtx3071 rotated kit with EL header, all other normal bolt ons.
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