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Old 10-11-2007, 03:59 PM   #1
WRblueX_Guy
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Default Hoosier R6 vs Toyo RA-1 - width/pressure differences, etc

Primary use: HPDE/Road racing

My RA-1s are done after my last track event, so I am in need of some new tires. I was using 235/40/17 Toyo RA-1s on 17x8 +48 Rota Torques. I bought them shaved and slightly used for about $65 per tire from a company that sells used race tire take-offs. One of the tires corded on my third event (~5 hours of track time). I would probably have gotten 4 events out of them if I didn't destroy the fronts at the first event due to understeer. The first two events were 100°+ days, so that may have hurt a bit, also.

This time around, I was thinking of getting something with a little more grip and maybe wider. But if I went any wider, I would have to cut/roll my rear fenders. I would definitely go this route if I was to continue to track my WRX, but I plan to sell it and get a Miata towards the beginning of the year.

That said, I am considering getting 225/45/17 Hoosier R6s. They will be almost full tread, with one session on them. These tires will be considered "full tread", whereas the RA-1s I had were "3/4ths tread". The Hoosiers will have similar, or slightly more, tread depth.


Tread life
Over the past few events, I have cleaned up my driving a lot in order to keep the front tires gripping instead of pushing. I hope to do 3 more track events this year. The weather should be cool to slightly warm during the next few months.

I know the Hoosier R6s have a softer compound, but given the circumstances, do you guys think I will be able to make these tires last for 3 events? It will probably be 4-5 20-25 minute sessions per event. Overall, track time should be similar to what I did before but the weather will be cooler, and a lot less understeer.

One more thing to note: My car has 347 whp, so front wheel spin when coming out of corners has been an issue. I recently installed a Whiteline anti-lift kit, which did help a lot. But my front tires do still spin on some corner exits.


Width differences
I believe the Hoosier R6s run about one size wide, and the RA-1s are average width. Will the 225/45 R6s be a similar width to the 235/40 RA-1s on the same 17x8 wheel?

I was originally planning on getting the 245/40/17 R6s, but I think it might be a little overkill for a 17x8 since it will probably fit like a 255/35/17. Plus, I would most likely have to roll my fenders, and strut clearance may be a concern.


Tire Pressure Differences
For the RA-1s, I have found them to be real nice when I start them off around 34 cold, which puts them around 40-42 hot. Does anyone know what the R6's most optimal operating temperature would be? I know I will have to experiment, but a ballpark range would be nice to know ahead of time.


Thanks,
Brian
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Old 10-11-2007, 04:08 PM   #2
Chiketkd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRblueX_Guy View Post
I was originally planning on getting the 245/40/17 R6s, but I think it might be a little overkill for a 17x8 since it will probably fit like a 255/35/17. Plus, I would most likely have to roll my fenders, and strut clearance may be a concern.
I ran 245/40/17 Hoosier R6's on my D-stock '06 WRX for a couple months this season. The tires don't rub and you won't need to roll the fenders.

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Old 10-11-2007, 04:26 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post
I ran 245/40/17 Hoosier R6's on my D-stock '06 WRX for a couple months this season. The tires don't rub and you won't need to roll the fenders.

Thanks for the reply. And damn do those look wide.

I'm not familiar with AutoX class rules, do you have anything done as far as shocks/springs? Is your ride height high enough that when you experience body roll, the fenders clear the shoulders of the tires? And do you mind telling me the size/offset of those wheels?

I am on 8k/6k coilovers with about 14" F/13.5" R fender to hub ride height.
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Old 10-11-2007, 04:43 PM   #4
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You start RA-1's at 34 cold road racing? holy carp...

Have you tried aiming for 34-37ish HOT temps? I think you'll like them better.

Most of us start them in the upper 20's cold.

Sorry I didn't help with your question at all!
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Old 10-11-2007, 04:54 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by WRblueX_Guy View Post
Thanks for the reply. And damn do those look wide.

I'm not familiar with AutoX class rules, do you have anything done as far as shocks/springs? Is your ride height high enough that when you experience body roll, the fenders clear the shoulders of the tires? And do you mind telling me the size/offset of those wheels?

I am on 8k/6k coilovers with about 14" F/13.5" R fender to hub ride height.
The above pic is a stock class car.

Front swaybar and shocks are basically the only mods allowed. Stock spring rates and height.

He has +55 stock wheels though, with a wide rcomp and +48s you may need to roll the rear fender slightly.
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Old 10-11-2007, 05:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by waktasz View Post
The above pic is a stock class car.

Front swaybar and shocks are basically the only mods allowed. Stock spring rates and height.

He has +55 stock wheels though, with a wide rcomp and +48s you may need to roll the rear fender slightly.
Correct on all accounts -- those wheels are +55 offset 17x7" SPT wheels. I do know that Hoosier R6/A6's on a +50 offset wheel do NOT rub either.
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
You start RA-1's at 34 cold road racing? holy carp...

Have you tried aiming for 34-37ish HOT temps? I think you'll like them better.

Most of us start them in the upper 20's cold.

Sorry I didn't help with your question at all!
Hmm, that's interesting. Since the RA-1s have a very soft sidewall, they seem to rollover on me a lot at the lower pressures. Are you referring to full tread or shaved tires?

Before my first event with the Toyos, I searched to find what pressures people were running and saw this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1c View Post
I run Toyo RA-1's and start with them around 34lbs cold. When I come in and check they're usually around 40-42lbs, depending on the air temp and how quickly I get stopped and can check. I figure I lose at least a pound of air during the cool down lap, so they're running around 41-43 hot which is about ideal for an RA-1. I'd say starting in the 40's is WAY too high. You build up a lot of heat at the track which is usually good for 7-8lbs of pressure. At least that's been my experience.
I also came across a few other people running similar pressures, maybe a tad lower.
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waktasz View Post
The above pic is a stock class car.

Front swaybar and shocks are basically the only mods allowed. Stock spring rates and height.

He has +55 stock wheels though, with a wide rcomp and +48s you may need to roll the rear fender slightly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiketkd View Post
Correct on all accounts -- those wheels are +55 offset 17x7" SPT wheels. I do know that Hoosier R6/A6's on a +50 offset wheel do NOT rub either.

Thanks for the answers. It would probably be close, but I don't want it to end up rubbing on me at the track. I'm sure rolling the fenders would provide plenty of room, though.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:43 AM   #9
mav1c
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One thing to consider is that a full tread Hoosier has about the same tread depth as a shaved RA-1. Also, the Hoosier is basically a slick compared to the RA-1, with much more grip. Hoosiers run wide, so the 225/45/17 will probably be as wide as the 235 RA-1.
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