|
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
10-23-2012, 04:18 PM | #651 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 202804
Join Date: Feb 2009
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Durham, NC
Vehicle:2002 PSM Sedan The 2.0L that could |
Ron, can you post a picture of how you have yours setup? Is it somewhat similar to the first photo?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
|
10-23-2012, 07:32 PM | #652 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
Quote:
All I did wAs follow the diagram in post1. Last edited by Phatron; 10-23-2012 at 07:38 PM. |
|
11-27-2012, 11:51 PM | #653 | ||
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
11-28-2012, 09:56 AM | #654 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 48219
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:. Always drive the race line . |
Quote:
If you want to open the wastegate more, you reduce WGDC which diverts less to the inlet and more to the WG. Otherwise the pressure gets diverted to the inlet pre-compressor and whatever slight pressure loss you have post compressor, translates to a pressure gain pre-comrpessor. Running it to the 'inlet' really is the most optimal way. Period. |
|
11-28-2012, 10:25 AM | #655 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 202804
Join Date: Feb 2009
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Durham, NC
Vehicle:2002 PSM Sedan The 2.0L that could |
I'm going to tackle the install this weekend (again) I have a few questions though. With the bleed hole on one of the nipples of the hallman mbc, and the top port of the ewg vented, it's recommended to cap the "unused" port on the ebcs going to the inlet? Is there too much pressure in the system that's vented from the mbc/ewg?
Thanks |
11-28-2012, 10:52 AM | #656 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
Quote:
If you lower the WGDC, it will open the port more directly to the WG diaphragm via the EBCS. 100% WGDC should put the MBC solely in the loop for boost control. WGDC: 0% = Spring pressure 100% = MBC 1-99% = Boost control anywhere between spring pressure and MBC. It works. The only optimal way I've found after countless cars is the way Grimmspeed recommends. Using the inlet caused overboosting as I was essentially using the inlet vacuum to lower the pressure on the line needed for opening the WG. |
|
11-28-2012, 11:18 AM | #657 | ||
Scooby Guru
Member#: 48219
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:. Always drive the race line . |
Quote:
Quote:
But what you say is plausible. The vacuum in the inlet reduces the pressure on one side of the MBC so it 'sees' less of a pressure differential and opens the wastegate less which is basically equivalent to setting the MBC a little higher. But then can't you just loosen up the MBC a bit to compensate? Last edited by MRF582; 11-28-2012 at 11:35 AM. |
||
11-28-2012, 11:28 AM | #658 | ||
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
Quote:
Quote:
In the path of least resistance, you don't want one of them to be a vacuum source. Might as well just stick with an EBCS only setup. Either restrict the pressure via the EBCS or the MBC. The boost will find the easier route. Tuning is not a problem; I've done a car or two. |
||
11-28-2012, 11:50 AM | #659 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 48219
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:. Always drive the race line . |
Quote:
But yes, you're right, capping it off and effectively making it a restrictor style 2-port should be the best way. But here's a question. Does this slight 'overboost' which introduces more pressure pre-compressor, maintain the same pressure ratio across the compressor? So this overboost, simply allows for more air to flow through without making the efficiency any worse? |
|
11-28-2012, 12:07 PM | #660 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
It does not introduce pressure pre-compressor as it a small amount of air. The volume of air does not matter, it's the pressure you're trying to maintain at the WG that does. If you're venting/sucking pressure away from the boost controllers, you're making the MBC useless.
With the way I described, you will NEVER overboost unless you pop a line off. The ultimate path of least resistance will use the EBCS unless it is closed off too much and then the MBC comes into play. |
11-28-2012, 04:07 PM | #661 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
I'm not fully understanding how it causes an overboost.
If you hook the setup up, then start at wg pressure, then start tightening the mbc and stop when you get to the desired boost pressure....when does the overboost start? i've had mine hooked up with that port going to the inlet, with that port on the ebcs open to atm, and with that port plugged and didnt notice any differences. However, I didnt do them all back to back as a test I still refer back to my analogy of the ext wg's....cause people set them up differently and some folks say they dont work unless you have the top port connected....some say they dont work if they are connected....some say it works better one way vice the other. If you read back through this thread you'll see people who cap it, people who vent it, and people who run it back to the intake. and theres also people that say each way doesnt work. Bottom line is if the mbc is controlling the boost.....then its working, no? Last edited by Phatron; 11-28-2012 at 04:14 PM. |
11-28-2012, 04:27 PM | #662 | ||
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
When you command 100% WGDC, the boost has two places to go, the WG or the inlet. Given the inlet is adding vacuum, it wins. Therefore, you have a lack of pressure on the WG diaphragm to open it up.
Quote:
Quote:
For those that have it in the intake, what is your WOT WGDC (as well as the maxium post compensation)? Is the MBC truly controlling your WOT boost, or is it the EBCS? |
||
11-28-2012, 05:37 PM | #663 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+ |
yamaha, let me ask a question:
how much vacuum do you think you're seeing in the maf pipe? |
11-28-2012, 06:08 PM | #664 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
Considering that's all my Crawford AOS uses for a vacuum source and it works well, there's quite a bit.
|
11-28-2012, 08:41 PM | #665 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
The vacuum line for pcv is also 20x bigger than the pinhole ebcs line.
|
11-28-2012, 08:52 PM | #666 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
Pressure drop across the ports is the same, and since that's all we really care about here... The amount of air actually in the boost control setup is very small. We're not concerned about the volume of air but the pressure throughout the boost control setup.
|
11-28-2012, 09:03 PM | #667 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
Mine worked all the way from wg press to 32 psi
|
11-28-2012, 09:24 PM | #668 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
What was your commanded WOT WGDC?
|
11-28-2012, 11:05 PM | #669 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 48219
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:. Always drive the race line . |
|
11-28-2012, 11:37 PM | #670 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
Can you provide a diagram of how yours is specifically rigged up, as well as your WGDC map (and verify WGDC post comp is 100%)?
|
11-29-2012, 02:10 AM | #671 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 140444
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Vehicle:05 Stage Free LGT ATP 3076, 6MT, AVO FMIC |
Quote:
Because that's not been my experience either... I do get a couple psi of overshoot, but only briefly, and then it settles back down to whatever the MBC (Hallman RX) was set for. I'm told that an EWG will help with the overshoot, and I'll test that theory eventually... |
|
11-29-2012, 02:53 AM | #672 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
|
11-29-2012, 03:33 AM | #673 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
Matching numbers in the ECU is not the same as actual boost. What happens when you input 100% in you WGDC at WOT? What exact routing did you do? What was your spring pressure?
The whole idea of the hybrid setup is using the MBC at WOT for boost control, yet maintain a car that does not PTFB during cruising. If you're not doing 100%, why put a MBC in anyway? Once the throttle goes to the floor, the EBCS is completely taken out of the loop as it flips to the port that is capped off, thus forcing everything through the MBC as if the EBCS was not there. The EBCS should only have control at PT conditions where you would build boost over what the WG spring pressure is. If you run a low enough spring setup, you could virtually have LOTS of boost control at PT, however, with the MBC in parallel and no other exit (not VTA or inlet on the 3rd port), it will ultimately cap max boost if for some reason high gear/high load would give you PTFB from a tune that would otherwise not be hitting boost targets. |
11-29-2012, 05:53 AM | #674 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:2003 GGA MBP 12.9 / 105+ |
if that is indeed the case, then you're throwing substantial power/efficiency away due to excessive pre compressor airflow restriction, which is the absolute worst place to have pressure drop.
|
11-29-2012, 11:20 AM | #675 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 73932
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2005 STi EFR 6758 04 S2000 EFR 7064 |
And here I always thought the worst place to have vacuum while at WOT was on the other side of the turbo. Unless you run the turbo without an intake, or a ridiculously large diameter intake, it's just a fact of life. Current inlets have support wire running through them due to the lack of pressure on the pre-compressor side.
Anyway, about boost control. Last edited by yamahaSHO; 11-29-2012 at 12:06 PM. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
What kind of boost control solenoid/boost controller is this? | roninsoldier83 | Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) | 3 | 10-01-2007 10:24 PM |
If the pill is your primary method of birth control, learn from my mistake | George71 | Off-Topic | 59 | 03-15-2005 12:00 PM |
mbc/ebc and peak boost in lower gears? | chrisfranklin | Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) | 2 | 08-02-2004 09:29 PM |
Joe P. MBC XZ Turbo Manual Boost Controller (ebay no reserve) | lstepnio | Private 'For Sale' Classifieds | 0 | 03-22-2004 06:43 PM |
Need Help: An analysis of boost control methods | smiles | Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) | 16 | 01-07-2002 03:12 PM |