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Old 06-25-2004, 11:48 PM   #1
WRXVII
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Default Those who upgraded from Cobb stage 2 to stage 2.5

For those who have upgraded from Cobb stage 2 to 2.5 (no upgraded fuel pump or IC), did you notice much difference in lowend or midrange power? Due to rather conservative tuning, I expect power output to be around 235-245whp. Anyone has actual dyno done on stage 2.5 WRX?

Do you think it was worth spending $1200 for that extra power?
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:29 AM   #2
blackie
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its very worth it i went from 225whp and 225wtq to 272.5whp and 259wtq on the same dyno. my dyno is somewhere on wrxforum.com like 47 extra whp between stage 2 and 2.5! its worth it
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:34 AM   #3
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hey blackie, are you running on upgraded IC and FP? how's tranny holding up?
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:38 AM   #4
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Cobb stage 2.5 is everything except upgraded FP and IC.
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Old 06-26-2004, 02:30 AM   #5
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WHere do you get this map I was at cobbs map download site and they don't have it.

I am runing atage 2 now. Never heard of stage 2.5!

Let me get this right, you can run it on stock turbo with just a turbo back like stage 2.0 ?

I have an 04 with up pipe and TB.

Let me know
Thanks
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Old 06-26-2004, 03:02 AM   #6
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No, Cobb stage 2.5 is everything stage 2, plus STi injectors and a VF34/VF30. I think an up-pipe too.
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Old 06-26-2004, 03:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by DickWRX
WHere do you get this map I was at cobbs map download site and they don't have it.

I am runing atage 2 now. Never heard of stage 2.5!

Let me get this right, you can run it on stock turbo with just a turbo back like stage 2.0 ?

I have an 04 with up pipe and TB.

Let me know
Thanks
Rich

Stage 2.5 is just what everyone calls it because Cobb hasn't named the VF34 / VF 30 upgrades yet. You cannot run the 2.5 map on the stock turbo.
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Old 06-26-2004, 05:10 AM   #8
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I went from Stage 2 to 2.5. I always loved stage 2 and when I first made the switch to 2.5, I was a little dissapointed. However, after a couple of weeks of hard driving, the car seems to have learned and is performing better. Actually, tomorrow morning I will be removing my 3rd cat and go totally catless. This should free things up a bit and I expect to see a little improvement in power and spooling time.

3rd and 4th gears are awesome. I can be doing ~80 in 4th, floor it and I'm at 100 in no time. 1st gear seems to com eand go way too fast.

As expected when you go to a larger turbo, there's more lag. Where stage 2 seemed to kick in around 3200 RPM, now it takes to around 4000 RPM for it to really kick in. And when it does, you really feel it!

The thing is, it's taking some getting used to for me to keep it in that new "sweet spot". I'm pretty sure I saw Blackie's dyno graph (very impressive I may add) and it was very obvious that ~4000 RPM is where the torque really kicks in. So as compared to stage 2, there's more lag but way more top-end pull.

Was it worth $1,200? Yes and no. Yes, because I did it in preparation for Cobb's stage 3 (I'll kill someone if stage 3 does not use a VF30/34!) No, because it's not a huge jump from stage 2....at least not like it was when I went from stock to stage 2!

Oh, I did do an upgraded pump just to be safe. I figured that stage 3 would need it anyway...plus I'd rather run rich than lean.

One other thing about Cobb..... I'm a huge supporter of them. Stage 2 was a dream when I reflashed to it an dI reccomended it to anyone who would listen. But Cobb is treating stage 2.5 like a red headed stepchild... I mean they offered it to folks who kept demanding it, but they always make it clear that it's not an "official" stage. They have never posted the dyno plots for it though they have them, and God knows when stage 3 will come out. From what I gather, Cobb will most likely debut their new TMIC at the same time and the map will probably be based off of it. Everything that I have read states that stage 3 will be a more agressive map and will support the VF30/34. If it does not, I will immediately sell my AccessPORT and go the ECUtek route.
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Old 06-26-2004, 11:14 AM   #9
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I agree.....however I find your feelings on the jump from stage 2 to 2.5 a little disheartening, and it makes me wondering exactly what kind of numbers your putting down....a trip to the dyno maybe a good idea to give you a basis of where your at before stage 3......A lot of people who are impatient for power and have money are going the Ecutek or Utech, or if your rolling in dough, the Vishnu route. Cobb is a bit more conservatively priced, but I feel that they offer a substantially better quality product, they are very behind the market right now.....I have no even gotten to stage 2 yet, mainly because i'm waiting for the closest dealers to me to recieve accessports....if i have to wait two months, it'll still be quicker than waiting for cobb to send one in the mail....i could go off about their customer service and how i feel they are in over their head and need to hire someone who understands e-commerce better. But I won't, lol. Point is, I believe in holding out, because.....I know what its like to have to self tune engine/fuel managment on a turbo car and if you don't have a goood starting point, it takes forever and you may never get it right......i've taken a look at the logs for the base maps for Utech, and they don't look quite right to me.....A/F's are a little scketchy, and change dramatically across rpms, (cobbs graphs they sent me did not show this), and just a few other things about their power curves that didint thrill me. Access Port definately thrills and cant wait to use it.

Like you said I'm pretty confident that Cobb stage 3 by the time it comes out (we're looking at fall at the earliest i believe) will be worth an ungrade. I e-mailed them not long ago and they said to expect stage 3 to include, a revised 2.5 map (so yes, VF34/30) a TMIC, some sort of intake (which i'd be willing to bet will be the nicest one ive ever seen...)....im not sure about an uppipe but i think 99.9% of people going to this stage will already have one or be putting one in at the time (like me). I believe it will just be tuned for use with a catless up-pipe, as there are no performance difference from any brand, or gutted stocker.

blackie said he saw around 272.xx whp on 2.5 map, i think with an uppipe? That would be about 340 HP at the flywheel. That's a 50 HP difference from 2-2.5?! I hope to god he's not FOS because those are some comforting and impressive numbers......what max boost are you hitting, do you have an EGT? if so how do temps look? Ever have any low oil pressure? stock tranny/clutch? It sounds like you are really at this point, you must be
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Old 06-26-2004, 12:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRXVII
hey blackie, are you running on upgraded IC and FP? how's tranny holding up?
when i dynoed 272whp i still had the stock intercooler. i also had the fuel pump and header too. now i added the hyperflow tmic and it feels really nice . i have a defi egt gauge but everysense i switch to my new header i havent replaced the broken probe, but with stage two i would hit 1550-1600.F while driving hard. i would think they might be abit lower now with the new set up. i threw a wide band on it after the tmic intercooler install and it would hold 10.9-11.0 all the way to redline, so it should be a pretty safe set up. the tranny is fine so far ive had acouple incident were if i shift into 2nd to hard the rear diff makes a clunk sound from all the power, ive had to change up my driving style abit to help keep my tranny happy, i also never really launch the car i just take off fast by sliping it allittle, then when im moving i punch it.
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Old 06-26-2004, 12:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by blackie
when i dynoed 272whp i still had the stock intercooler. i also had the fuel pump and header too. now i added the hyperflow tmic and it feels really nice . i have a defi egt gauge but everysense i switch to my new header i havent replaced the broken probe, but with stage two i would hit 1550-1600.F while driving hard. i would think they might be abit lower now with the new set up. i threw a wide band on it after the tmic intercooler install and it would hold 10.9-11.0 all the way to redline, so it should be a pretty safe set up. the tranny is fine so far ive had acouple incident were if i shift into 2nd to hard the rear diff makes a clunk sound from all the power, ive had to change up my driving style abit to help keep my tranny happy, i also never really launch the car i just take off fast by sliping it allittle, then when im moving i punch it.




10.9:1 at full throttle/high rpm =

Very safe, IMO....sorry if you disagree but I'm kinda over looking your header because i don't believe them to be a bang for the buck on these cars....hah dont fret the rear diff, if you don't launch alot (which much to your credit you said u dont) you should be fine....wanna talk rear diffs, i have an LT4 Vette motor conversion in my 88 JeepWrangler, and about 3 weeks ago i was driving through a rock quarry, bouncing around, lost grip just at the wrong moment, popped the clutch, threw 350 ftlbs of torque to the rear and snap! the rear diff literally sepearted itself form my vehicle.....its ok, though, drive axles, diffs coming in from an F250 soon
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Old 06-26-2004, 10:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
...wanna talk rear diffs, i have an LT4 Vette motor conversion in my 88 JeepWrangler, and about 3 weeks ago i was driving through a rock quarry, bouncing around, lost grip just at the wrong moment, popped the clutch, threw 350 ftlbs of torque to the rear and snap! the rear diff literally sepearted itself form my vehicle.....its ok, though, drive axles, diffs coming in from an F250 soon [/b]
Please tell me you weren't still running the stock Dana35 rear end? I had a Wrangler for over 10 years and with the 4.0 I was always terrified of blowing up the rear with only 31" tires!
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Old 06-26-2004, 11:58 PM   #13
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Has anyone broken into 12s with stage 2.5? w/o upgraded IC and FP?
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Old 06-27-2004, 12:48 AM   #14
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yes some people have been running 12.7 to 12.9s with the stage 2.5 i ran a 12.8 at 106!!
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Old 06-27-2004, 11:15 AM   #15
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trbowrx, you ran 12.8 w/o upgraded FP and IC?
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Old 06-27-2004, 12:44 PM   #16
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yikes why would you not get a bigger fuel pump
A: it won't affect the map
B: you increased the fuel flow by more than 25%
C: it costs less than a 100 bucks ..
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Old 06-27-2004, 01:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by blackie
when i dynoed 272whp i still had the stock intercooler. i also had the fuel pump and header too. now i added the hyperflow tmic and it feels really nice . i have a defi egt gauge but everysense i switch to my new header i havent replaced the broken probe, but with stage two i would hit 1550-1600.F while driving hard. i would think they might be abit lower now with the new set up. i threw a wide band on it after the tmic intercooler install and it would hold 10.9-11.0 all the way to redline, so it should be a pretty safe set up. the tranny is fine so far ive had acouple incident were if i shift into 2nd to hard the rear diff makes a clunk sound from all the power, ive had to change up my driving style abit to help keep my tranny happy, i also never really launch the car i just take off fast by sliping it allittle, then when im moving i punch it.
Good to see you are still enjoying the car. The hyperflow is a beauty

See you on the road
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Old 06-27-2004, 06:15 PM   #18
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I just ordered pinks, FP and picked up a VF30

AP is scheduled to arrive in the next two weeks!
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Old 06-27-2004, 07:00 PM   #19
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blackies graph, stage 2, then 2.5:
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Old 06-27-2004, 07:17 PM   #20
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wow.... 272whp with Cobb stage 2.5 setup. What was the psi this dyno was run at? I am assuming ~16.1psi?
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Old 07-01-2004, 05:23 PM   #21
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what's target psi boost level for stage 2.5?
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Old 07-01-2004, 08:45 PM   #22
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16.5
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Old 07-01-2004, 08:57 PM   #23
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nobody is running numbers near blackie without headers and a FP ....does anyone have any real stage 2.5 dyno figures?
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Old 07-01-2004, 09:31 PM   #24
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VF30, FP, pinks, AP are all going into my car next week.....
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Old 07-01-2004, 10:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by GetSideways
nobody is running numbers near blackie without headers and a FP ....does anyone have any real stage 2.5 dyno figures?
If you know what people are running, why do you need dyno numbers?
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