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Old 12-19-2000, 11:51 PM   #1
BongMan
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Angry Subaru has Voided my warranty

I had a check engine light because of emission problems. Later i had an Apexi Afc put on and i'm not sure if all the wiring is done properly. They voided my warranty because i had the AFC put in, it caused a check engine light. What does this mean if i don't have a warrenty? I would like know what the implications of such a predicament. Thanks for your time fellas.
Larry
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Old 12-20-2000, 12:56 AM   #2
AKGC8
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Well they can void the warranty on the engine because you've altered the management. If anything does go wrong, they will have to prove its a result of the afc in order to void service. You'll now have to pay for any repairs that are a result of problems from the afc. They can't void the warranty on the rest of the car though. They can't turn down warranty service on your suspension, brakes, interior, etc, etc because the AFC has no effect on those parts.
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Old 12-20-2000, 04:25 AM   #3
AudiGuy
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Here's some recommended reading: How Aftermarket Parts Affect Warranties. I wrote it, so if you have any questions feel free to ask.
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Old 12-20-2000, 05:53 AM   #4
Paisan
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They can only deny service to any parts effected by the AFC. Which could be any engine parts. They have to prove the AFC caused the problem.

-mike
'00 Trooper LS
'88 XT6 when it dies -> '92 SVX http://www.iace.com/ia/trooper
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Old 12-20-2000, 05:57 AM   #5
Nick
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Yeah... but you also have to understand Service Manager Logic... if anything can in some way (no matter how complex) be related back to what you installed they are going to try to not cover it. Basically there rule is, if you've affected the car in any way then it's probably related to that.

Fortunatly I have a pretty decent dealer. I had to get my radiator replaced because the two plastic pegs that sit on top and go through the mounts that are attached to the crossbar that the hoodlatch is on. They actually covered it, even with the turbo. So as long as you can show them it's not related they will probably cover it. And I actually think a few months ago they would have said no, but with the new Turbo coming they are probably trying to be a little more leniant around turbo'd cars.

-Nick
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Old 12-20-2000, 06:14 AM   #6
SkToBe
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BongMan - Check out this website:
http://www.sema.org/warranty/
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Old 12-20-2000, 06:28 AM   #7
ColinL
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Point being that they MIGHT have defensible ground for voiding the warranty on your engine. Maybe, but probably not IMO. (If the engine runs fine without an AFC and there's no CE light, no harm done IMO.)

But voiding the entire vehicle's warranty? No way.
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Old 12-20-2000, 06:51 AM   #8
WRC666
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Arrow

Did they say it voids the warranty or do they just refuse to work on it with the AFC installed? Can make a big difference. Most dealers are willing to help, but have to cover their own backs, so they might give you a chance to put it back to original and then work on it.
Just try to stay nice when dealing with them, profanities don't help.
geez, and that from me. Getting old ;^)
Good luck!
666
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Old 12-20-2000, 08:20 AM   #9
#522
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Definitely clarify if they meant the entire warranty, because they can't do that. Contact Subaru, they were very helpful when I had some questions about warranty stuff. The numbers are on their website and they have a contact Subaru email too. Good luck.
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Old 12-20-2000, 09:49 AM   #10
Rubasu
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Three words for ya SUBARU OF AMERICA call them and discuss the problem with them maybe they can help you out with the warranty issue. Also try throwing the Magnuson-Moss Act at them. Make them prove that the AFC is the true cause of the problem. What gets me about the whole warranty thing is that they way dealerships deal with seems to vary for one to another all of them dealing with it in a different way. Some are Lax some are really stringent. I wish someone could step in and set a standard that all the dealers have to follow.

Just my $.02
Rubasu
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Old 12-20-2000, 11:12 AM   #11
Pipercub
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There is a standard, they just choose to ignore it. I actually had a service manager tell me he didn't care what the MMWA said. After the legal dept. got his atenttion things changed.
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Old 12-20-2000, 11:16 AM   #12
rpone605
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um installing an AFC taps into the ecu.

of course this voides the warranty.

it's just like those little stickers on computer...warranty void if seal broken.
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Old 12-20-2000, 11:33 AM   #13
Porter
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Ah, but those little stickers on computers that say warranty void don't do anything of the kind. It's fundamentally illegal to void a warranty for chassis intrusion on a computer unless the unit is not UL certified and thus poses a shock risk.

I'm sure it's similar on autos, otherwise having an independent mechanic replace an electrical part or circuit board would void the warranty, yes?
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Old 12-20-2000, 11:59 AM   #14
ColinL
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Exactly.

Just like all the cute little paint they put over various bolts. What good does it do? So what if I unbolted something? What if an independent servicer unbolted something? I don't see that either of them has anything to do with proving what is wrong with or not wrong with the engine, and what is legally covered under warranty.

If something is assembled improperly and THAT caused a problem, sure, ding my warranty coverage. But if it is all in good order, bite me and fix it.
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Old 12-20-2000, 05:21 PM   #15
tmat3
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I used to have a 98 Civic EX and the dealer (Rensselaer Honda in Troy, NY) that I bought from refused to fix brakes (change rotors) because I had gone twice before to get them changed or cut. It's too long ago to deal with and I don't even have the car any more because I traded in to get the RS. But is that even legal?

The rotors kept on warping every 10k - 15k. Pissed me off. When they decided not to fix it, I just got cross-drilled rotors and new pads which I eventually installed and worked perfectly.
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Old 12-20-2000, 09:48 PM   #16
motorob
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Lightbulb

The paint is not on the bolts for anti-tamper reasons. It is put there during assembly of the vehicle so that in the final assembly/quality control process, an inspector can check to see that bolts are in place and torqued properly.

[This message has been edited by motorob (edited December 20, 2000).]
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Old 12-21-2000, 12:04 AM   #17
adam99rs
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Simple solution....find another dealer. You'll find in this world there are people who play by the book, and those who are a bit more of a "mesch"...deal with the beaurocrats, and you'll go nuts, deal with the mensches, and you'll smile. There is (or was) a section on the board that listed positive and negative experiences with dealers nationwide. Check it out! use it as a guide; talk mto other owners..find out what they do. I know it sucks having someone tell you they won't warranty parts because of mods you have done, but you have to pay to play. It's not fair, it sucks, but you can ither live with it and ay out of pocket, or di some research and find a "cooler" service guy.
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Old 12-21-2000, 03:35 AM   #18
N/A
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Oh man are you guys missing out on all the ways that they have to void the warranty in the rest of the world. Security tape on the ECU, Bar codes on parts, foil with a seal embedded in it covering the bolts to the turbo and other parts, Checking parts numbers to see if they match the orignal equipment and things like that. That's why most people just void the damn warranty from the very beginning. Its not worth it to try and sneak by. Besides it could be worse. They could always report you to the EPA for trying to alter the emissions and the ECU. Now that would suck!
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Old 12-21-2000, 03:14 PM   #19
BongMan
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Sorry guys i would have posted a reply sooner, but i've been busy. I think they voided the warranty on the engine and electical equipment. I guess it's not the whole car but i know there is something going wrong with the ecu or some kind of Sensor on my car. I think i'll take my car to another dealer.

I'm going to take off the afc and get another dealer to look at my car. I imagine they will determine what is wrong.

Hopefully i'll find a dealer in my area that is kind enough to figure out what is wrong and they won't try and jack me for my aftermarket stuff. Thanks for all the imput guys.
Larry
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