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10-01-2013, 12:49 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 270482
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: albany ny
Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
running lean wot weird problem
So I am having a weird issue and I don't want to keep bothering my tuner all the time since we are friends so I thought I would post up and see what people think. Car is 2011 xt on e85 with walbro 465, id1000 and fuelab fpr (with gauge) 55 psi base. E85 is from the same gas station and tested.
It seems to go lean at wot and has happened before and at wot it creeps to 12.5 afr toward redline. The crazy thing is when we tune it is spot on every time around 11.8 but after a while it relearns and goes lean again. If I reflash my map it goes back to normal and actually runs rich until it relearns again. I am not to sure the time span as I don't go wot that often so I cant tell you exactly how long it takes to go lean again. Also when it goes lean it does not matter if I adjust the fpr it always stays the same.
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10-01-2013, 12:52 PM | #2 |
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Have you checked for leaks already?
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10-01-2013, 12:56 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 270482
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: albany ny
Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
Yeah no leaks boost and vacuum are normal.
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10-01-2013, 12:58 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 270482
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: albany ny
Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
Also wouldn't a leak affect my afr even I reflashed the ecu?
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10-01-2013, 01:10 PM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 133893
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Tri-State
Location: Red Bank, NJ
Vehicle:2011 BMW 328i Xdrive EJ255 02 Wagon (retired) |
What does your fuel trim D range read when it goes lean?
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10-01-2013, 01:39 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 270482
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: albany ny
Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
I will have to check why what should it read and what would be bad?
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10-01-2013, 05:50 PM | #7 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 133893
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
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Vehicle:2011 BMW 328i Xdrive EJ255 02 Wagon (retired) |
Quote:
If this is what is going on, just have Ray dial in that maf scaling a little better in that range. Usually its from 40g/s up to where open loops starts, but you can make the D range whatever you would like. Some tuners set the D range high enough that you can't ever hit it in closed loop, therefore it will always read 0, and not change the open loop fueling. |
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10-01-2013, 05:53 PM | #8 | |
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Member#: 133893
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
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10-03-2013, 01:26 PM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 270482
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: albany ny
Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
Well it is still running rich after flashing the map again but I took a look and my learning D was at -.4 at wot.
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10-03-2013, 03:30 PM | #10 |
Scooby Specialist
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How long has it been since it was reset? It depends how often you drive in the D range actually. If it gets up to -5 and higher, that is probably what is causing it to lean out.
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10-03-2013, 05:36 PM | #11 |
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Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
It has only been a couple days but I have only put 20 miles on it if that much. How long does it take to re learn usually?
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10-03-2013, 05:46 PM | #12 |
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I would drive at least a full tank. It really depends on how much you hit that particular airflow range. If you don't boost, it will stay at zero. The difference in the E85 content from tank to tank can make your fuel trims wacky sometimes. Or I would just wait til you see it running 12.5ish air-fuel ratio again, then check what the D range says. If its low, than the problem must be something else.
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10-03-2013, 06:26 PM | #13 |
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probably a MAF sensor on the way out.
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10-03-2013, 09:28 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
Not probable on a 2011 vehicle unless the car already has 60K+ miles or has been operated in a very dirty climate. But it's a possibility Cheers Lance |
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10-04-2013, 06:19 AM | #15 | |
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Quote:
fpr or fuel pump are also possibles |
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10-04-2013, 12:41 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
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Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
The fpr is new and it did it before that was installed. The pump is also almost new and while it was lean I swapped in a different pump and nothing changed. I also tried to raise the pressure but it would still go to 12.5 afr.
On another note I had a pretty big leak on my fuel pump housing gasket as it was installed wrong and was leaking out fuel when I filled up with gas. I put the gasket on correctly and it no longer leaks even though I broke one of the studs but there are still 6 left. Could that have anything to do with it, I don't really know if a evap leak in the tank would cause this issue or not? Since were on the subject does anyone have any suggestions on how to put a new stud on the tank since they are welded on and not changeable? |
10-04-2013, 01:48 PM | #17 |
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It wouldn't be the pump or fpr because once the ECU is reset, the air fuels go back to normal. The pump/fpr don't care if they ecu is reset.
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10-04-2013, 02:18 PM | #18 |
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i don't think it's time to rule out all mechanical issues though.
the only thing fuel related an ecu reset does it clear LTFTs. can you force LTFTs to zero on the 32b ecus as you can on the 16s? basically still run closed loop but no learning. |
10-04-2013, 05:53 PM | #19 |
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Yup, you can zero out the D learning range still.
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10-05-2013, 07:07 PM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
Well you were rite it started running lean again finally and sure enough my d learning was -12.3. So what does this mean exactly?
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10-05-2013, 07:14 PM | #21 |
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Granted you have no leaks anywhere, Ray just has to do some maf scaling. Are the A,B,and C fuel trims fine? You want that D range as close to zero as possible so it doesn't effect your target air fuel range going into open loop fueling. If anything, you would want it to tend to be a positive value, that way your air fuel ratio would only end up getting richer which is safer.
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10-05-2013, 07:19 PM | #22 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 270482
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
They were all in the negative range not as bad as the d but pretty bad. I don't believe I have any leaks but I will check it my vac stays jut fine and my boost levels are we're they always have been.
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10-05-2013, 07:28 PM | #23 |
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Join Date: Dec 2006
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Location: Red Bank, NJ
Vehicle:2011 BMW 328i Xdrive EJ255 02 Wagon (retired) |
He probably just needs to clean up the maf scaling a little then, no biggie. This is one of those times where having a wideband really pays off.
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10-05-2013, 07:37 PM | #24 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 270482
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Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
Could it be that my maf is maxed out?
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10-05-2013, 07:40 PM | #25 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 270482
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: albany ny
Vehicle:2011 turbotek fxt 11.85@117 4eat xt record? |
Also what is your reading on your vac on your auto? If I'm in gear it's around 18hg if I am in park it's around 20hg and when I am driving around and let off it sinks to around 22 hg. I am pretty sure it's always been like that but just wanted to check.
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