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Old 01-31-2010, 08:02 PM   #26
Bryanwrx
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guys im not gonna lie u might be getting ur volumes and areas mixed up.

Length x width x height is volume, not area

area is length x height, could be also length x width, but area is two dimensional and volume is three dimensional. I'm sure synolimit and beancounter know this it's more for avoiding the confusion for someone trying to understand ur numbers.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanwrx View Post
guys im not gonna lie u might be getting ur volumes and areas mixed up.

Length x width x height is volume, not area

area is length x height, could be also length x width, but area is two dimensional and volume is three dimensional. I'm sure synolimit and beancounter know this it's more for avoiding the confusion for someone trying to understand ur numbers.

yes, thanks for clarifying. when i said surface area i was only referring to the top side of the intercooler. Total surface area would be (LxH)2 + (LxW)2 + (HxW)2. But, someone smarter than me would know if that's relevant. Top side surface should be important to cooling efficiency since that's where cool air is taken in???
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:33 PM   #28
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For a layman like myself (as in no experience in building or testing intercoolers), from what I've read, it is the size (area) of surface that receives ambient temperature air that makes the most of a difference. Having a deep or wide (side-angle) intercooler for sure helps, but if hardly any air is hitting the intercooler, say if it is not wide enough (top-down) or the splitter on the hood does not angle the air properly, than no matter it's width it is basically rendered useless. There is a write up, a bit biased, by process west found at this address

http://www.processwest.com.au/websit...w_p_08tmic.htm

that outlines it's product. I can't remember if anyone posted this before, ill double check, but them emphasize that the area in contact with ambient temps is the most important. They've almost sold me and i'm sure others, despite the price. I would love to see the reps from Perrin chirp up and let us know their thinking behind using the original splitter. Anywho, hope this helps, found this info useful.
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:58 AM   #29
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+1 leaning towards buying the PW tmic also.
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:59 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
Every product has its advantages.

Here's a review..
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...+tmic+splitter
This review seems to focus heavily on fin density.

Fin density is not a more is better thing. It's a balance between cooling and pressure drop. For people using the factory style ICs, the issue people primarily face is one of flow restriction, not cooling capacity. If cooling capacity were incredibly important, then dyno tuning wouldn't work, as most places who dyno tune a TMIC will put like a fancy box fan blowing 15MPH air while your wheels and engine are working like it's 75 MPH.

gains are being seen primarily based on flow restriction (or lack therof) and in this case, low fin density is good. As well as a whole bunch of the details that a layman (me included) wouldn't know jack about. How the entrance / exit to the core is shaped has to have a massive influence on turbulence and flow capability (sharp edges vs. smooth, flat core vs. the STi / Griffin designs where the tubes protrude a bit out of the core, etc...)

For the average street user, they probably want to sacrifice cooling capacity for flow. They don't see enough constant acceleration to heatsoak it with the intake charge, it only heatsoaks in traffic. Any IC will cool off pretty quick at low loads and reasonable speeds... again, the typical dyno scenario is an example. Those little fans they put on the TMIC are not blowing 35 mile an hour air on the IC like you'd see on the street, and every IC recovers pretty quick.

Mostly you'll be in a situation where the IC can use it's thermal mass as a reservoir. You go on boost for a whole, the charge can pull from the "reservoir" of the cold TMIC. You come up on a blind corner that you can't safely go zooming into, and the IC has a chance to cool down & re-fill it's "reservoir"

People dog on fin density because it's the only thing they can see when they look inside an IC. Most people see low fin density and are . I see low fin density and am .

I've never looked inside a Spearco... anyone have a picture of that one? I'm guessing nowhere near the density of the STi / WRX stock cores.

The other thing people miss is the IC pipe design and endtank design. This is another place where flow is a big deal. Shiv got dogged out of the Subaru scene (and I helped, he screwed up my car once), but he did publish some interesting IC flow info at one point, and flow with / without the IC pipe was hugely different. That is one area where PW claims to have an improvement. However, they don't share their flow data, which is a real bummer. There's basically no recent flow data on ICs, and it's so critical, I don't think the IC MFRs realize how much those kinds of numbers would help sell their products. If someone has an $800 IC and can show conclusively that it performs closer to the $1k Spearco than to the STi IC, then even if they don't outperform the Spearco, people will choose them just because no other MFR has any real flow data, and going with something that has SOME data is better for a lot of the internet crowd than something with no data. The US is a data driven market more than Aus and Europe, at least from what I've seen on the various forums.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:42 AM   #31
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I may be wrong about this, as some of that info is not available anymore, but I think the intercooler in that review was fin-and-tube.

Also, I have the autospeed intercooler sprayer. This is working just like the spec C unit, with a thermistor on the intercooler, one for ambient temperature and taking IDC info as well.
So, the autospeed unit has to be adjusted for temperature trip point.It then shows that the intercooler temp is tripped.

When one tunes a car (and I'm not a tuner), I think that they have to look at the worst case scenario, when determining how far they can push the tune. I think this refers to timing.
They have to figure out what will hapen in NY in a cold December day, when you floor it in 5th, while doing 60 MPH. How far will the boost surge before the EBC catches it.
What will happen in August while the temperature is in the '90's when you floor it in first, from a traffic light, and then row through the gears. How close will it get to detonation when you try to floor it again.
With this in mind, a tuner may have to "leave on the table" some air flow potential that a drivetrain setup shows, for the sake of staying on the safe side of knock and surge.

So, basically, I see this on the autospeed, the intercooler heats up, even in a mild day, say like in May, with temp in the 60's.
The problem is if you had a hot run, and almost immediately you decide to have anotherone.
Once you end the first run, the aiflow stalls and the interooler temperature shoots up.
It takes good amount of seconds before the new air flow cools it off again. These are most important. This is where a "Better" intercooler has to be faster.

This is why I think consistency is important.
I also think that an intercooler is more of an equalizer of temperatures, allowing for more aggressive tuning, than it is a performance device, giving you more power (this is probably different for drag racing).
This is why I think that better equalization, more consistency is better.

I think that more potential for heat exchange provides a more consistency.
Achieving this can be expensive with a top mount. The fin and tube design does this at the expense of some flow. Fin density is a factor.

Last edited by Vlad; 03-07-2010 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 03-07-2010, 03:49 PM   #32
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I ordered the PW from RallySportDirect. Be prepared to wait a bit, about a month out or so... I don't mind the wait for a great product. Will be getting a protune when in, plus installing the rest of my crap in the office that will go on at the same time. Can't wait to see the results!

SD
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:34 PM   #33
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My process west top mount should be here this week !
Next week I shall have it on the dyno and will see what it can do !
BLOUCH 20G TD-06 8cm hotside on the car now.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:45 PM   #34
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GOT MINE FRIDAY! first to order from rally sport direct and got the only one on the the first shipment from PW AUS. It's a pretty kick #$$ setup! Heading to P and L soon for tuning.
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:04 PM   #35
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Im about to bite the bullet on this unit and found some interesting test data from a Australian forum about PW TMIC vs STOCK STI TMIC with intercooler temps on the stock sti reaching 76 degrees Celsius and rising on a warm summer day (around 40 degree Celsius). While the Process west unit was able to stay at a consistent 37 degrees going around a circuit track.

I am waiting to order this unit just trying to figure out if i can get a 06 wrx core but want to make sure the splitter will fit. I hope it isn't a four week wait.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWidmer View Post
Im about to bite the bullet on this unit and found some interesting test data from a Australian forum about PW TMIC vs STOCK STI TMIC with intercooler temps on the stock sti reaching 76 degrees Celsius and rising on a warm summer day (around 40 degree Celsius). While the Process west unit was able to stay at a consistent 37 degrees going around a circuit track.

I am waiting to order this unit just trying to figure out if i can get a 06 wrx core but want to make sure the splitter will fit. I hope it isn't a four week wait.
then please paste the link here !
it would be a great service for the nasioc fanatics
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:47 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekfoc View Post
then please paste the link here !
it would be a great service for the nasioc fanatics
I meant to write in my post that i couldn't find it today, and didnt save the link.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:57 PM   #38
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:58 PM   #39
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there is a better testing review than that. i'll post whenever i find it
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:02 PM   #40
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http://www.processwest.com.au/websit.../pw_p_tmic.htm

here is their site. good info from their testing.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:01 PM   #41
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I LIKE WHAT THIS GUY SAID ! I COPIED AND PASTE IT HERE .

I got sick of waiting for the test on an STI so I went to Tenegah Motorsports in Perth WA and got myself one of these babies....

Took me about an hour to fit up, pretty easy job for an amatuer like me..

Now I have an 06 STI that is a Spec C conversion, so it has the VF36 Twin Scroll turbo, but the factory intercooler is the same as any Aust spec STI.

The difference to say the least is very noticable, the car is way more linear now in it's power delivery and I have picked up about 1psi of boost, Abdus who run's Tenegah took my car for a spin today and could not believe how smooth the car was in it's power delivery.

One noticeable difference is how much cooler the core is after you've given the car a hard drive over the factory core, you can touch the core and is almost cold to the touch in the centre, I feel the car can now be retuned to run higher boost more safely than the STI core.

Car is also more punchy down low as it seems to flow better, this is from my seat of pants feeling.

So I think a worthwhile upgrade over the factory STI core, especially if you are going to run higher boost..

Cheers All

p.s. When can I expect my commission cheque
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:02 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFwrx05 View Post
http://www.processwest.com.au/websit.../pw_p_tmic.htm

here is their site. good info from their testing.
thanks for your help
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:37 PM   #43
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no problem!
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:53 PM   #44
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I have a Perrin TMIC and though it was a pain to fit because of my GT3076, it does the job great, i can beat on it all day and immediately touch the intercooler and it will be cool.. this is in Socal. now that im moving to Key West Florida with humidity, i may be switching to FMIC. im not sure yet.. but honestly no complaints about perrin TMIC.

370Whp 391 Ft lbs at 22psi with a header leak on ATP GT30 and Perrin TMIC. with a fan on the TMIC on the dyno on crappy 91 cali octane
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:14 PM   #45
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ok, we need to get the pre 08 posts out of this thread.


and back on track. the process west IC for the 08+ WRX and 05+ LGT with "stock location" turbos, is amazing. the perrin one has fitments issues, interference with clutch MS, and alignment issues with the compressor housing. i have the process west with a "vf-18g" and it works great, the inlet side is warm and the throttle body side is always cold, even after hard runs or autoX runs. the splitter they send is perfect, fitment is great, and taking the IC on and off to work on the turbo or other parts is a snap. i think the flow vs cooling on the PW is more ideal and efficient as well. the throttle response between shifts is good, on and off throttle response on back roads great.

for the record, vf-40 converted to 18g, process west IC, 20 psi, 335hp 360tq. 3rd gear full boost right before 3k rpm.

Last edited by blackrex13; 03-09-2010 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:05 PM   #46
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i also have the perrin tmic stealth. although i don't like perrin much, it had no fitment issues and does a great job with my vf52.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:40 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I think that more potential for heat exchange provides a more consistency.
Achieving this can be expensive with a top mount. The fin and tube design does this at the expense of some flow. Fin density is a factor.
That's all well and good. Fin density is a factor. However, the 08+ TMIC doesn't hit a wall at ~300-320ish HP because it's not able to cool. It hits a wall because if can't flow more air.

Another take on the flow and cooling capability of various ICs:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1808493
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:50 PM   #48
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Yes, I saw that the options for the 08+ WRX are limited for TMIC and the stocker doesn't look like much, so I am not surprised it hits a wall at the power level you're mentioning.

I'm running an 08 Sti TMIC and am doing quite well with it, at 300 WHP on a 2.0 and at full boost below 3800 RPM from an evo III 16g.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:14 AM   #49
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Ordered Mine through my tuner should be here in 3 weeks then off to get it protuned will post reviews
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:14 PM   #50
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08+ guys. Installing mine this weekend along with turbo back exh, AEM CAI, and GS 3 port ebcs. I think this is a very "average" setup minus the TMIC so it should be pretty easy to see if this baby makes a big difference. Tuning will happen at P&L Motorsports on Wed (maybe Tues). I'll post up and let you know the results....
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