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Old 03-28-2012, 10:25 AM   #6151
scramjett
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Originally Posted by sir_wagon View Post
What fraud?? The BRZ has two, count them, two speedometers visible to the driver (one analog, one digital). You know exactly how fast you are actually going in this car. It does not lie to you about that. A fraud is a bloated "sporty" car with impressive HP figures that feels as insulated as a Camry or a Buick.
What frauds would those be? How about a car fraudulantly passing itself off as a pure sports car that cost more than other cars with 50% more power and 2x the torque? Say what you will, but the exterior design of the BRZ is bound to last a lunch-time compared to other "fraudulant" sports cars you haven't driven. The only claim to fame the BRZ seems to have is that it can take a corner, but what about the other 99.99% of the time when you're not making a turn? My wife's SUV has about the same numbers in the 0-60 game, and I've yet to see anything about 45-65mph passing times, which I'd really like to see....
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:36 AM   #6152
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Originally Posted by scramjett View Post
What frauds would those be? How about a car fraudulantly passing itself off as a pure sports car that cost more than other cars with 50% more power and 2x the torque?
hmmm....I think that statement holds true for most "sports cars" in the market compared to say...SUV's and HD trucks.

So are all of those frauds?

I can think of MANY "pure sports cars" that had much less power than the sedans and muscle cars of the day.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:40 AM   #6153
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Originally Posted by scramjett View Post
What frauds would those be? How about a car fraudulantly passing itself off as a pure sports car that cost more than other cars with 50% more power and 2x the torque? Say what you will, but the exterior design of the BRZ is bound to last a lunch-time compared to other "fraudulant" sports cars you haven't driven. The only claim to fame the BRZ seems to have is that it can take a corner, but what about the other 99.99% of the time when you're not making a turn? My wife's SUV has about the same numbers in the 0-60 game, and I've yet to see anything about 45-65mph passing times, which I'd really like to see....


Since when is being a sportscar about straight line speeds. That's muscle car territory. Throughout the history of automobiles the "true sportscars" have been about driver feel and handling capability and a select few of them have more than average straight line prowess.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:05 AM   #6154
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Originally Posted by scramjett View Post
What frauds would those be? How about a car fraudulantly passing itself off as a pure sports car that cost more than other cars with 50% more power and 2x the torque? Say what you will, but the exterior design of the BRZ is bound to last a lunch-time compared to other "fraudulant" sports cars you haven't driven. The only claim to fame the BRZ seems to have is that it can take a corner, but what about the other 99.99% of the time when you're not making a turn? My wife's SUV has about the same numbers in the 0-60 game, and I've yet to see anything about 45-65mph passing times, which I'd really like to see....
Where I live, there are no straights. ALL roadways are one continuous curve. I mean all... interstate AND country two-lanes. Thus, where I live, roads are designed with purpose-built passing zones... where a slow car can safely be passed. To amplify that, there are NO 65 mph two lanes. Those speeds are only assigned to multi-lane divided Interstate System highways, where most have a 70 mph speed limit, and where everyone can pass in safety.

This is why my STi with its 160+ mph capability is used about like a 2.5i Imprezza 99.99% of the time.

On those two lane country roads, which comprise the vast bulk of this scenic state's highway system, I'm certain that the BRZ will deliver what I'm looking for. YMMV due to attitude and location. Some people want to enjoy the journey, some the gadget they're riding.

With over 100K motorcycle miles within 100miles of where I live, my pleasure of The Journey is clear. On a good day, out on those roads, all I saw was the world unfolding before me... the motorcycle disappeared as if I were on a magic carpet, my mind flying free in the air absorbing scent, sound, and surroundings. That doesn't happen in a cage too often. But I've had one that came close... an extension of my will, my friend, taking me instead of me taking it. I've looked for a replacement for thirty years. My money is on the BRZ to end that search.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:08 PM   #6155
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I wish you luck man.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:17 PM   #6156
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I wish you luck man.
Thank you. Me, too.

I see you've wisely kept your hands on a good one, from the timeframe of the one I'm looking for a replacement for. It takes dedication, good for you.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:26 AM   #6157
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Originally Posted by scramjett View Post
What frauds would those be? How about a car fraudulantly passing itself off as a pure sports car that cost more than other cars with 50% more power and 2x the torque? Say what you will, but the exterior design of the BRZ is bound to last a lunch-time compared to other "fraudulant" sports cars you haven't driven. The only claim to fame the BRZ seems to have is that it can take a corner, but what about the other 99.99% of the time when you're not making a turn? My wife's SUV has about the same numbers in the 0-60 game, and I've yet to see anything about 45-65mph passing times, which I'd really like to see....
So... Uh... Speaking of fraudulent, what about the other 99.9% of the time you're not using 300 horses during a commute, doing 0-60 runs between stoplights, and passing from 45-65mph? Are you seriously suggesting that we turn the wheel less than these activities?

Go find another bridge to hide under.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:16 PM   #6158
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Originally Posted by scramjett View Post
...and I've yet to see anything about 45-65mph passing times, which I'd really like to see....
Motortrend 45-65:
2.7 MS3 (2010)
2.9 WRX (2010)
3.0 GTI (2010)
3.1 Lancer Ralliart (2010)
3.2 WRX (2008)
3.2 Civic Si (2012)
3.3 BRZ
3.3 Jetta GLI (2012)
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #6159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer

Motortrend 45-65:
2.7 MS3 (2010)
2.9 WRX (2010)
3.0 GTI (2010)
3.1 Lancer Ralliart (2010)
3.2 WRX (2008)
3.2 Civic Si (2012)
3.3 BRZ
3.3 Jetta GLI (2012)
And let's point out once more that these "passing" times are obtained in *top* *gear*. So, it's not a very useful data point IMO as most future BRZ owners will not be in sixth gear at 45 (especially if the goal is to quickly accelerate to 65).
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:47 PM   #6160
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik

And let's point out once more that these "passing" times are obtained in *top* *gear*. So, it's not a very useful data point IMO as most future BRZ owners will not be in sixth gear at 45 (especially if the goal is to quickly accelerate to 65).
Let's also point out that the BRZ is at the bottom of that performance list, once again. A "sports car" that doesn't "perform", except on a tight auto-x course.
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:36 PM   #6161
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Let's also point out that the BRZ is at the bottom of that performance list, once again. A "sports car" that doesn't "perform", except on a tight auto-x course.
You're right, the fact that this car takes .6 seconds longer than an MS3 to accelerate from 45-65 in top gear is going to totally ruin this car for me. I cant believe Subaru even bothered to build something that takes sooooo long to go from 45-65 in top gear, which is the only thing that matters in a car. I'm going to buy a mustang instead so that I can go 45-65 in top gear faster than anyone else, and I'll make sure I brag on every forum about my super fast 45-65 time.


April fools!
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Old 04-01-2012, 05:57 PM   #6162
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Let's also point out that the BRZ is at the bottom of that performance list, once again. A "sports car" that doesn't "perform", except on a tight auto-x course.
Which is exactly what I want it for! That and highway commuting.
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:24 PM   #6163
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Originally Posted by BullyWRX View Post
Let's also point out that herpidy derpidy herp derp, once again. A "derp herp" that doesn't "derp", except on a derpidy herp.
trollololo
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:50 PM   #6164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BullyWRX

Let's also point out that the BRZ is at the bottom of that performance list, once again. A "sports car" that doesn't "perform", except on a tight auto-x course.
But, seriously. From the very first rumors Subaru/Toyota said they weren't worried about magazine performance metrics, just how fun it was to drive. Since the beginning they've said this.

I don't understand why you and others are all so butthurt.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:04 PM   #6165
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How many times do you go 45 to 65 in 5th gear in a WRX? I'm usually in 2nd shifting to third. If I'm trying to pass I'm in 4th. 5th is for when i'm already at 55/65 and just keeping the rpms low to not waste gas getting to cruising speed.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:19 AM   #6166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3
How many times do you go 45 to 65 in 5th gear in a WRX? I'm usually in 2nd shifting to third. If I'm trying to pass I'm in 4th. 5th is for when i'm already at 55/65 and just keeping the rpms low to not waste gas getting to cruising speed.
The point of the test is to highlight the car's daily driving torque.

Also, someone in this thread doesn't know the difference between a performance car and a sports car.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:23 AM   #6167
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The point of the test is to highlight the car's daily driving torque.
Yep, it's a meaningful metric for anyone too lazy to downshift when passing.

The number of times 45-65 top gear acceleration has applied to my daily driver situations in over 20 years: 0
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:30 AM   #6168
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"I can't believe this doesn't have a turbo or AWD"
"I'll wait for the STI version"
"0-60 is too slow"

You don't understand it. This car was not built for you. Don't buy it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:37 AM   #6169
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The point of the test is to highlight the car's daily driving torque.

Also, someone in this thread doesn't know the difference between a performance car and a sports car.
I disagree...

45 to 65 mph tests were relevant in the "old days," when V8s and torque ruled, and "55" hadn't been shoved up our tailpipes. In today's world of smaller and smaller engines these tests are anacronistic at best.

My STi has plenty of power at any speed for most needs, but it's still a low-compression four banger under most driving circumstances. I do NOT drive in 6th gear at 45 mph and ask for maximum acceleration. That is plain stupid, and asks for trouble.

Instead, whenever I anticipate acceleration may be needed, I downshift to an appropriate gear in preparation... it costs some gas mileage but it makes driving safe for me and the engine. It helps to remember that on the 6MT the top TWO gears are overdrive... meaning they're there for cruising and mileage, not "performance."

In the BRZ, while only 6th is overdrive, I'll say it again... it is stupid to ask for maximum acceleration from 45 to 65 mph in ANY gear except that which experience and the circumstances dictate.

The test is bogus, and anyone who references it... well, to be nice, shouldn't. Use your head.

And another thing... in many states, including the one I live in, that kind of behavior is ILLEGAL and will get you a ticket on anything but rural interstates and some limited access roads. But then, those roads are multi-lane where there's no need for such behavior. Where, therefore, in the Real World, does usage of top-gear, 45-65mph make sense? None.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:32 AM   #6170
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But, seriously. From the very first rumors Subaru/Toyota said they weren't worried about magazine performance metrics, just how fun it was to drive. Since the beginning they've said this.

I don't understand why you and others are all so butthurt.
because he is a ****ing idiot, that's why.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:20 AM   #6171
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Also, someone in this thread doesn't know the difference between a performance car and a sports car.
Please share!!!! I am waiting with bated breath for you to enlighten us, and I look forward to the useful and relevent discussion that will follow! Maybe we can also discuss To-MAE-to vs To-MAH-to, or whether having the gas door on the left or right is better for weight distribution
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:25 AM   #6172
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If nothing else, the BRZ has served as a catalyst for tearing the Nasioc family apart. The religious AWD & turbo only family members are outraged at the heathens who want RWD. Like most religions and families, everyone has a different take on the state of things. Even the heathens are warring (over price and spec).

Holidays will be tense.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:45 AM   #6173
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Originally Posted by Shavenyak

But, seriously. From the very first rumors Subaru/Toyota said they weren't worried about magazine performance metrics, just how fun it was to drive. Since the beginning they've said this.

I don't understand why you and others are all so butthurt.
Please explain how this is going to be fun to drive on the way to work, going straight down the road, or, to pick up groceries, etc. It won't be. It'll supply you with all of the NVH of a sports car, and none of the grunt. Since the beginning, Subaru has also said it was going to be cheaper than it is. There's a difference between being butthurt and being disappointed. Hell, Subaru even tried to get us to believe it was going to have more power, when they told journalists it would be under 300hp! Actually, the people who are the most butthurt in all of this are the ones who need to lash out so aggressively at those who point out the car's shortcomings. When they get to the end of their glass of kool-aid and have nothing left, they always fall back on the phrase, "This car isn't for you"! I find it foolish to buy anything that only excels at about 5% of its usage time.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:46 AM   #6174
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because he is a ****ing idiot, that's why.
Who are you again?
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:05 PM   #6175
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For those complaining about lack of power, name 3 true sports cars of the 50-70s that weren't exotics and lets compare them to the muscle cars of the same time.
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