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Old 06-17-2014, 02:45 PM   #1
RaceComp Engineering
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Default 2015 WRX and STI suspension TECH thread.

Wanted to start a FIFTEEN suspension tech thread to keep all of the misinformation to a minimum.

I will start with some basics and write a review impression piece later. ( had the privilege to do a back to back and I mean back to back comparison a few months ago and I found it very interesting.


STOCK SHOCK DYNO COMPARISON




15 WRX and 15 STI are same for rear.

motion ratio rear 0.78


STI fronts are mono tube

WRX front is twin tube

BOTH REARS are TWIN TUBE.
---------------------------

measurements below are for WRX

bump front 48.1 mm (1.89 inch)
droop front 88.9 mm (3.5 inch)

44.5 mm front bumpstop

bump rear 51mm (2 inch)
droop rear 66 mm (2.6 inch)

55 mm rear bumpstop

_____________________________________


STI front spring rates 5.8K
STI rear spring rates 5.3k

WRX front spring rates 5.8K
WRX rear spring ratees 5.2K



STI front sway bar 24mm
STI rear sway bar 20mm

WRX front bar 24mm (23mm measured on press car FEB 2014)
WRX rear bar 20mm

Last edited by RaceComp Engineering; 12-19-2017 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:46 PM   #2
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UPDATE : 2016 WRX LIMITED AND PREMIUM CONFIRMED!!!


2016 WRX LIMITED AND PREMIUM MODELS ARE COMPATIBLE WITH RCE YELLOWS.






Last edited by RaceComp Engineering; 09-16-2015 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:46 PM   #3
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reserved.
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:51 PM   #4
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can you confirm that the WRX and STi are also the same fitment as far as the knuckles go?

as in:
the 2015 STi front shocks will now fit on the 2015 WRX
the 2008+ STi front shocks will now fit on the 2015 STi
the 2008+ STi front shocks will now fit on the 2015 WRX

i know the WRX is now the 5x114.3 bolth pattern, and wasnt sure if that translated to the knuckles and bearing sizes too.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:57 PM   #5
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Subscribed for the RCE Yellow drop springs !
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
can you confirm that the WRX and STi are also the same fitment as far as the knuckles go?

as in:
the 2015 STi front shocks will now fit on the 2015 WRX
the 2008+ STi front shocks will now fit on the 2015 STi
the 2008+ STi front shocks will now fit on the 2015 WRX

i know the WRX is now the 5x114.3 bolth pattern, and wasnt sure if that translated to the knuckles and bearing sizes too.
Yes. 3 local dealers looked it up and they use the same part numbers for front and rear hubs etc. So yes you could install take off STI brakes on a WRX ( FIFTEEN TO FIFTEEN). Or 2008+ front and rear STI brakes onto a 2015 WRX.

Myles
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Old 06-18-2014, 08:52 AM   #7
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A couple of thoughts from Andy @ RCE:

1. The shocks are pretty good. Lots of damping available and it's a quality curve, especially STI.
2. Spring rates are the highest ever for STI and WRX in the USA. And both cars still ride relatively well. See note 1.
3. I'm not convinced all coilovers will be an "upgrade." See note 1 and 2.
4. Less than 5mm of travel before engaging the bumpstops up front (on the WRX). I'm not convinced all lowering springs will be an "upgrade" either.
5. Softer rear spring rate is interesting with the lower motion ratio in the rear. You'd expect more understeer from that (and there is some) but it's not as bad as you'd think.
6. Swaybars are BIG. Those are serious bars from the factory.

All in all, damn good job Subaru! Yes there is room for improvement for those looking to get a little more serious but you can tell Subaru has been focusing on handling the past few years and it's paying off.

- Andy
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering View Post
A couple of thoughts from Andy @ RCE:

1. The shocks are pretty good. Lots of damping available and it's a quality curve, especially STI.
2. Spring rates are the highest ever for STI and WRX in the USA. And both cars still ride relatively well. See note 1.
3. I'm not convinced all coilovers will be an "upgrade." See note 1 and 2.
4. Less than 5mm of travel before engaging the bumpstops up front (on the WRX). I'm not convinced all lowering springs will be an "upgrade" either.
5. Softer rear spring rate is interesting with the lower motion ratio in the rear. You'd expect more understeer from that (and there is some) but it's not as bad as you'd think.
6. Swaybars are BIG. Those are serious bars from the factory.

All in all, damn good job Subaru! Yes there is room for improvement for those looking to get a little more serious but you can tell Subaru has been focusing on handling the past few years and it's paying off.

- Andy
Wow, good news. More spring, more frt bar and better damping sounds like a much improved setup. It would appear that the only change that might help more aggressive DD use would be a 6k rear spring.
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Old 01-04-2015, 10:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering View Post
A couple of thoughts from Andy @ RCE:

1. The shocks are pretty good. Lots of damping available and it's a quality curve, especially STI.
2. Spring rates are the highest ever for STI and WRX in the USA. And both cars still ride relatively well. See note 1.
3. I'm not convinced all coilovers will be an "upgrade." See note 1 and 2.
4. Less than 5mm of travel before engaging the bumpstops up front (on the WRX). I'm not convinced all lowering springs will be an "upgrade" either.
5. Softer rear spring rate is interesting with the lower motion ratio in the rear. You'd expect more understeer from that (and there is some) but it's not as bad as you'd think.
6. Swaybars are BIG. Those are serious bars from the factory.

All in all, damn good job Subaru! Yes there is room for improvement for those looking to get a little more serious but you can tell Subaru has been focusing on handling the past few years and it's paying off.

- Andy

Hi I am new to suspension and was wondering on how to get rid of the negative camber that these springs will cause on the 2015 wrx.

For an alignment, what addition parts do I use?

Do I have to get camber bolts and rear control arms?
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:22 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by turbowrx24 View Post
Hi I am new to suspension and was wondering on how to get rid of the negative camber that these springs will cause on the 2015 wrx.

For an alignment, what addition parts do I use?

Do I have to get camber bolts and rear control arms?
I think others will chime in, but I'll go first.

A little neg camber is not a bad thing. Even with lowered cars you usually end up on the alignment at about -1.5 deg. This is perfect for a daily driver. As the car goes into a corner it will sway and the tires contact patch will flatten.

The biggest killer of tires is neg camber, its toe in/out. Lowering the car will affect this. Ensure that your align shop sets toe to zero (straight)

For an alignment after installing only drop springs nothing else is required. If you really want 0 deg camber, there should be enough adjustment in the front strut to get close. The rears have no adjustment, so it is what it is.

You don't need camber bolts or rear arms. These are typically used in motorsports to better dial in the car (usually with more neg camber)
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbowrx24 View Post
Hi I am new to suspension and was wondering on how to get rid of the negative camber that these springs will cause on the 2015 wrx.

For an alignment, what addition parts do I use?

Do I have to get camber bolts and rear control arms?
I understand most of this thread is about the RCE Yellow springs. I can't speak to those but this is my experience with a competitors product.

From the Ebiach spec sheet for the 2015 WRX http://eibach.com/america/en/eibach-...-kit-2015-plus

Quote:

Front Alignment:

OE Camber = -0.8 deg (+/-0.5 deg)
OE Caster = 6.5 deg (+/-0.8 deg)
OE Toe = 0.0 deg (+/-0.16 deg)
PRO-KIT Camber = -1.0 deg
PRO-KIT Caster = 6.8 deg
PRO-KIT Toe = 0.0 deg

Rear Alignment:

OE Camber = -1.5 (+/-0.8 deg)
OE Toe = 0.24 deg. (+/-0.16 deg)
PRO-KIT Camber = -1.7 deg
PRO-KIT Toe = 0.24 deg
For the Ebiach springs it states that that the amount it lowers should fall within the factory camber specs after install. After installing these on my car I am at -2.7/-2.8 FL/FR and- 3.8/-3.8 RL/RR with three weeks of settling time. The rears have visible negative camber to them. I have ordered camber bolts for the front and control arms for the rear to resolve this issue. I really wish I would have measured the camber before installing to see if my car was truly in the factory spec range.

Oddly enough I was at a dealership today while a friend looked at a BRZ. Of the five WRX's they had in stock two of them appeared to have significant rear negative camber. I have my doubts about the dealership doing their due diligence to make sure the stock alignment is dialed in. From what I understand the stock range is up to -2.3 in the rear so maybe they just do what they have to to get it to -2.3.

I would be prepared to buy the front camber bolts and rear arms if you plan on lowering the car at all. Even if you don't replace the springs, you may want to have the alignment inspected.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:52 PM   #12
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[quote=Kibitz503;42997371]I understand most of this thread is about the RCE Yellow springs. I can't speak to those but this is my experience with a competitors product.

From the Ebiach spec sheet for the 2015 WRX http://eibach.com/america/en/eibach-...-kit-2015-plus
For the Ebiach springs it states that that the amount it lowers should fall within the factory camber specs after install. After installing these on my car I am at -2.7/-2.8 FL/FR and- 3.8/-3.8 RL/RR with three weeks of settling time. The rears have visible negative camber to them. I have ordered camber bolts for the front and control arms for the rear to resolve this issue. I really wish I would have measured the camber before installing to see if my car was truly in the factory spec range.

That's a lot of camber for only lowering your car .8 of an inch, especially for the rear. Are you sure eibach sent you the right springs? Can you post pics of your setup?
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Old 01-20-2015, 04:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitz503 View Post
I understand most of this thread is about the RCE Yellow springs. I can't speak to those but this is my experience with a competitors product.

From the Ebiach spec sheet for the 2015 WRX http://eibach.com/america/en/eibach-...-kit-2015-plus



For the Ebiach springs it states that that the amount it lowers should fall within the factory camber specs after install. After installing these on my car I am at -2.7/-2.8 FL/FR and- 3.8/-3.8 RL/RR with three weeks of settling time. The rears have visible negative camber to them. I have ordered camber bolts for the front and control arms for the rear to resolve this issue. I really wish I would have measured the camber before installing to see if my car was truly in the factory spec range.

Oddly enough I was at a dealership today while a friend looked at a BRZ. Of the five WRX's they had in stock two of them appeared to have significant rear negative camber. I have my doubts about the dealership doing their due diligence to make sure the stock alignment is dialed in. From what I understand the stock range is up to -2.3 in the rear so maybe they just do what they have to to get it to -2.3.

I would be prepared to buy the front camber bolts and rear arms if you plan on lowering the car at all. Even if you don't replace the springs, you may want to have the alignment inspected.
I am going to assume you are using aftermarket camber bolts OR the alignment machine is WAYYYY off.

We and most here with a similar drop are maxing front camber out at -1.8 and seeing rear camber at -2.4ish.

Yours are a FULL 1.0 degree more than that.

Myles
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Old 01-21-2015, 01:26 AM   #14
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I am going to assume you are using aftermarket camber bolts OR the alignment machine is WAYYYY off.

We and most here with a similar drop are maxing front camber out at -1.8 and seeing rear camber at -2.4ish.

Yours are a FULL 1.0 degree more than that.

Myles
I ordered after market camber bolts so that I can reduce the neg camber in the front. They have not arrived yet. I measured the camber angle using this method.

http://blog.mechguru.com/how-it-work...-metal-square/

I then did a quick sanity check by placing a digital level against the rotor of the car and got the same results. I'm not surprised that they are this far out of spec because the rear wheels have visible negative camber.

Quote:
That's a lot of camber for only lowering your car .8 of an inch, especially for the rear. Are you sure eibach sent you the right springs? Can you post pics of your setup?
I double checked the part before installing. The ride height looks like what you would expect.






I don't think there is anything wrong with the springs and I agree I wouldn't expect that much camber from a slightly less than an inch drop. I have a strong suspicion that my alignment was already at or beyond the factory tolerance before the install.

The gentleman I responded to asked if he would need additional parts to get his car aligned properly after installing springs. He probably will not need them if his car is well within the factory specified range at -1.5 degrees already. In my case I did need the parts.

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Old 06-18-2014, 09:35 AM   #15
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point 4.

are the bump stops that long? is subaru moving to a setup where the bumpstop is supplementing the spring rate, and not just for shock protection? dont some other car manufacturers do somthing like this? i thought i recalled some german/european cars did this pretty often.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrcrxsi View Post
point 4.

are the bump stops that long? is subaru moving to a setup where the bumpstop is supplementing the spring rate, and not just for shock protection? dont some other car manufacturers do somthing like this? i thought i recalled some german/european cars did this pretty often.
Yup. It's not entirely unexpected (Subaru has done this before) BUT I am a little surprised since the actual springs are fairly stiff and don't really need the extra rate from the bumpers. The initial progression isn't super stiff but it does ramp up for a progressive feeling. It does add to some at the limit understeer while making things feel more "tossable" and neutral before that limit. That was possibly their goal.

I have other theories as to why they've moved in this direction but would love to talk to one of their engineers. Subarus over the last decade have been bumpstop active but generally don't run such high main spring rates, so in that sense it's new. The BRZ relies on the bumpstops but is sprung super soft. It does make the valving of the dampers a little more interesting for both cars.

- Andy
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:15 AM   #17
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Yeah, and a solid alignment will get you far on it's own too!

But a solid alignment + some good MILD drop springs with a little more rate...

Really though, these dampers can support a lot more spring rate easily. Not a ton of headroom in the rear, but tons up front.

- Andy
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:38 PM   #18
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Have you guys thought about (or tried) throwing on your STi yellows (5mm drop IIRC) on the 2015 WRX/STi? they should fit right?
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:29 PM   #19
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Previous gen springs may physically fit, but I don't think that you would get the ride heights you'd expect. I'm not entirely sure...Myles might have a better idea of this.

- Andy
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:01 PM   #20
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I have had BOTH GR STI shocks next to 2015 STI shocks and if you put 15 shocks on your 2008 + you would be lowered by about 25mm ! We haven't tried it, but with the new dampers being significantly better than the previous generation, if the lowering was even front to rear you would have a SOLID set up.

EDIT: 2015 SHOCKS are a FULL INCH SHORTER assembled on the bench than 2008-2014 STI.

With that said it goes without saying that putting 08+ on the 2015 would result in raising the front at least and possibly the rear.

I found that from an "all around " stand point the 2015 WRX shocks felt the best. A decent amount of damping WITHOUT the overly active mono tube feeling that some might not like about the STI at speeds below 30mph.

So yes you could actually install WRX shocks on your STI ( both 2015's) and our soon to be released "Functional Lowering springs" and have a solid performer without the typical low speed feeling the STi has. Let me be clear, I dont mind this feeling but some have already complained about the STI feeling super stiff at low speeds( mph).

THe other thing we will test next week is installing our GTWORX BILSTEIN rear shocks ( mono tube with cir clips for height adjustment) on the rear of a 2015 and testing it with our new springs. Could be a way to REALLY bump up the stock 2015's with some SOLID spring rates and for not too much money.
The GTWORX BILSTEINS have +10 up or down range of adjustment on height so this could work. We are working on this already.

I too and super excited about the "New Twins". Subaru REALLY did us a solid on the shocks and spring rates. Just adding T2's to my WRX and I have 6.9 caster !

Myles
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Old 06-18-2014, 02:45 PM   #21
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And here is a comparison we did a while back between the REARS ONLY on the WRX and the PREVIOUS WRX models. MASSIVE difference.

You can't tell me Subaru project engineers weren't following the aftermarket on rates and what needed to be done chassis wise.

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Old 01-25-2016, 06:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering View Post
... So yes you could actually install WRX shocks on your STI ( both 2015's) and our soon to be released "Functional Lowering springs" and have a solid performer without the typical low speed feeling the STi has. Let me be clear, I dont mind this feeling but some have already complained about the STI feeling super stiff at low speeds( mph).

Being one of those above mentioned "some" I decided to test the veracity of this statement and visited today my Subaru dealer who let me drive one of their 2016 WRX cars over some poorly surfaced roads and some horrendous speed bumps.

Then I drove my 2015 STI over the same surfaces and I must say that the difference was stunning. Where the STI punished me the WRX coddled me. I wouldn't call the WRX ride plush but it is firm without being jarring at the same low speeds that make my STI punishing. The STI is very good at high speeds but a real nuisance on the poorly surfaced roads of my community.

I made an on the spot decision to order a set of Front WRX dampers (there are two part numbers for CVT and 6 speed) which I will be installing over the weekend.

This will not be changing my decision to order the Bilsteins from this vendor whose knowledge and opinions I shall henceforth respect.

Thank you sir, we spoke this morning. You guided me to this thread and I thank you for it.

George.
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Old 05-03-2016, 06:47 PM   #23
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I have had BOTH GR STI shocks next to 2015 STI shocks and if you put 15 shocks on your 2008 + you would be lowered by about 25mm ! We haven't tried it, but with the new dampers being significantly better than the previous generation, if the lowering was even front to rear you would have a SOLID set up.

EDIT: 2015 SHOCKS are a FULL INCH SHORTER assembled on the bench than 2008-2014 STI.

With that said it goes without saying that putting 08+ on the 2015 would result in raising the front at least and possibly the rear.

I found that from an "all around " stand point the 2015 WRX shocks felt the best. A decent amount of damping WITHOUT the overly active mono tube feeling that some might not like about the STI at speeds below 30mph.

So yes you could actually install WRX shocks on your STI ( both 2015's) and our soon to be released "Functional Lowering springs" and have a solid performer without the typical low speed feeling the STi has. Let me be clear, I dont mind this feeling but some have already complained about the STI feeling super stiff at low speeds( mph).

THe other thing we will test next week is installing our GTWORX BILSTEIN rear shocks ( mono tube with cir clips for height adjustment) on the rear of a 2015 and testing it with our new springs. Could be a way to REALLY bump up the stock 2015's with some SOLID spring rates and for not too much money.
The GTWORX BILSTEINS have +10 up or down range of adjustment on height so this could work. We are working on this already.

I too and super excited about the "New Twins". Subaru REALLY did us a solid on the shocks and spring rates. Just adding T2's to my WRX and I have 6.9 caster !

Myles
I got some MY15 sti suspension to out on a MY11 forester... Think it will go on?? I know I have to elongate the holes and trim it a little near the bolt holes but have camber adjustable bolts and upper inner bushings to adjust rear camber as well as rear spacers so as not to have any sag... Hoping that it will all go... Any help or advice would be appreciated!
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slobbythegreat View Post
I got some MY15 sti suspension to out on a MY11 forester... Think it will go on?? I know I have to elongate the holes and trim it a little near the bolt holes but have camber adjustable bolts and upper inner bushings to adjust rear camber as well as rear spacers so as not to have any sag... Hoping that it will all go... Any help or advice would be appreciated!
At that point why not.just get some coil overs?
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:30 PM   #25
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At that point why not.just get some coil overs?
I was asked the same thing by a mate today... The sti suspension was 200 bucks...install 200 spacer and bolts and bushings all up 250...total cost 650...coilovers plus install.. 1500+
The question I initially asked still stands... Will it fit
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At that point why not.just get some coil overs?
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