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Old 01-02-2015, 12:19 PM   #1
Sti Relapse
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Default Adding battery acid to battery verse replacing battery

So I was talking with my uncle on Christmas about my new car and up came the point that I'm pretty sure my battery about to go with all the cold weather coming around and thing about replacing my battery. He said for the past 5 years he has just been adding battery acid to his boat battery because after every winter his battery his dead and that a lot cheaper then buying a new battery every year and he said I should be able to do the same thing with a my car battery. So I was wondering if anyone has heard of this before or has done it themselves? Also if you now any reasons why this would be bad to do?
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:39 PM   #2
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You aren't supposed to add acid. If the battery has removable cell caps you add distilled water to the proper level and then charge the battery on a charger. Assuming the battery is in good condition the water will be converted into acid through the chemical reaction that occurs during charging.
If regular charging doesn't bring the battery back to a full state of charge on all cells, the plates are probably sulfated or shorted. Some chargers have a reconditioning cycle to remove or reduce sulfation but if that doesn't work the battery is junk.
Let your uncle pour acid into his boat battery, but if your car battery takes a dump just go to the store and get a new one (or trade the old one in if it still has warranty).
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
You aren't supposed to add acid. If the battery has removable cell caps you add distilled water to the proper level and then charge the battery on a charger. Assuming the battery is in good condition the water will be converted into acid through the chemical reaction that occurs during charging.
If regular charging doesn't bring the battery back to a full state of charge on all cells, the plates are probably sulfated or shorted. Some chargers have a reconditioning cycle to remove or reduce sulfation but if that doesn't work the battery is junk.
Let your uncle pour acid into his boat battery, but if your car battery takes a dump just go to the store and get a new one (or trade the old one in if it still has warranty).
Thanks. That's why I wanted to asked before I just started pouring random stuff into my battery.
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Old 01-02-2015, 02:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sti Relapse View Post
Thanks. That's why I wanted to asked before I just started pouring random stuff into my battery.
Good idea, since if you pour enough acid into your battery it will eventually explode and the last thing you want is a sulfuric acid bath.
Here's something I found looking around-

Quote:
Adding more acid does not revive a battery whose power has diminished and/or sulfuric acid level has dropped. Lead-acid bateries are made of lead plates (PB & PB02) immersed in sulfuric acid (H2SO4). Over time and as a battery sits in a state of gradual discharge, a chemical reaction takes place that is irreversible. The oxygen moves to the lead, the lead becomes oxidized, turning the pates into lead peroxide (PBSO4) and thereby turning the acid into little more than water (H2O). Adding acid does not revive a lead acid battery because the PBO2 plates will still be PBSO4
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:04 PM   #5
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I will NEVER buy another 'flooded cell' lead/acid battery EVER again.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:18 PM   #6
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Could consider a battery blanket? Might help out a little bit and they're relatively cheap to buy.
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:02 AM   #7
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I added this to my battery last week. the open circuit voltage was 12.11v before
adding and is now 12.40v.
http://www.amazon.com/Solder-It-Charge-It-Concentrated-Battery-Additive/dp/B000AMBOA8

I use this to test the voltage in the morning before starting.
http://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-3721-Battery-Charging-Monitor/dp/B000EVWDU0
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:02 AM   #8
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This is my original battery (over 6 1/2 years old).

Last edited by CRAZYHAWK; 11-02-2015 at 10:23 AM. Reason: Double post
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:31 AM   #9
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Penney wise and pound foolish. That tester is useless for testing the condition of your battery. With very little surface area on the plates you will measure full charge. The problem is the battery cannot supply the cranking current.

Lead acid batteries are wear item and need to be replaced. Is the cost of a new battery worth the inconvienience and cost of being stranded someplace? The fix will be a new battery. Replacing the battery before it fails is called preventative maintenance.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:42 AM   #10
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Testing the battery while drawing 300 amps would be better. With the door
open observing the interior light while cranking also gives a good indication
of the state of charge of the battery. Mine is better now.
This product will not work on a mechanically bad battery.
I used this product back in the 1970s with reasonable results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIChuck View Post
Penney wise and pound foolish. That tester is useless for testing the condition of your battery. With very little surface area on the plates you will measure full charge. The problem is the battery cannot supply the cranking current.

Lead acid batteries are wear item and need to be replaced. Is the cost of a new battery worth the inconvienience and cost of being stranded someplace? The fix will be a new battery. Replacing the battery before it fails is called preventative maintenance.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:52 AM   #11
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If you can use the dome light, why buy the meter? There is the right way and to test a charging system and then all other ways. This is an other way.

Get a DMM, a clamp on ammeter rated for greater than the max output of your alternator. These tools are much more useful than a cigarette lighter powered meter. You can get the same readings from your Accessport as from this meter.

I used two 6 volt batteries in series for my old MGB. Doesn't mean anything today.

Messing around with an old battery with today's sophisticated electronics is a badddddd idea. Save $80.00 on a battery and damage a $400.00 ECU.
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:00 PM   #12
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The meter also checks the alternator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIChuck View Post
If you can use the dome light, why buy the meter?
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:17 PM   #13
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No it doesn't. One of these days, when I'm really bored, I'll write a tutorial on how to troubleshoot and test the charging system.

In a nutshell, the alternator is a current generator and a voltmeter measures, well, volts. See the problem?
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Old 11-02-2015, 03:26 PM   #14
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LIChuck "No it doesn't. One of these days, when I'm really bored, I'll write a tutorial on how to troubleshoot and test the charging system.

In a nutshell, the alternator is a current generator and a voltmeter measures, well, volts. See the problem?"




There is a resistive load on the system.
E = I x R
Voltage and current are proportionally related.

Last edited by CRAZYHAWK; 11-02-2015 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIChuck View Post
I used two 6 volt batteries in series for my old MGB. Doesn't mean anything today.

Messing around with an old battery with today's sophisticated electronics is a badddddd idea. Save $80.00 on a battery and damage a $400.00 ECU.
Two 6 volt batteries in series is still equal to one 12 volt one.

How is an old battery in reasonable condition going to damage an ECU?
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Old 11-03-2015, 04:21 PM   #16
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Obviously you don't see the problem. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

E = I X R so if you are saying a battery can be modeled as a resistor Ohm's Law applies. In reality a battery is not a resistor so Ohm's Law is the wrong model. The charging of a battery is an electrochemical reaction and more complex than Ohm's Law.

As far as the source (alternator), you are applying a Kirchoff's equivalent circuit when Norton's applies. The alternator sources current and the voltage rises as a result of an electrochemical reaction. A certain voltage threshold needs to be met for the reaction to initiate. Too high of a voltage will permanently damage the battery. The voltage is determined by the charging current and the battery properties.

Also the load on the system is not purely resistive. In a steady state condition, with DC voltage, the complex components of the loads don't matter and may be viewed as purely resistive. However as soon as you have switching, the complex components come into play.

How is an old battery in reasonable condition going to damage an ECU? First, you don't know the condition of the battery. Secondly, an old battery can contribute to various sags, surges and transients. For more info read the SAE specs on automotive electrical systems. Check out load dump transients.

You can hold onto your misconceptions and misinformation but I am responding for those who are considering following your advice.

Maybe now is the time to tell you I am a EE with years of testing experience of automotive products as well as military, aerospace and industrial products. Electrical testing involves simulating potential electrical failure. Products may pass when they are new and in the lab but after being in the real work for a while, performance can change.
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:50 PM   #17
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I never said the battery can be modeled as a resistor. It has internal resistance, which
increases with deposits on the plates.
The voltage reading of 14.5 volts with the engine running allows the battery to charge.
The load can be looked at as resistive. It will change with switching and the voltage regulator will handle it.
A capacitor will become an open (stop DC) and an inductor will become a short
in a direct current circuit.
I seriously doubt the chemical reaction in the battery will cause electrical spikes (various sages, surges and transients).
I am aware that there are multiple parallel circuits that can switch on and off.
Writing "misconception & misinformation" about my post doesn't make it so.
Bringing Kirchoff and Norton to describe parallel circuits wasn't necessary.
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Old 11-04-2015, 03:35 PM   #18
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Enjoy your bliss.
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:28 PM   #19
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The meter can be used as an acceptance test. I traded the 2009 Impreza 3 weeks ago. It started all winter, even on Valentines Day, -9 F.
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