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12-20-2012, 08:28 PM | #76 |
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There will always be someone with unlimited budget who will buy based on exquisite marketing and exclusivity.
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12-20-2012, 08:29 PM | #77 |
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Apparently at least 500 people in the world have "unlimited budgets".
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12-20-2012, 08:47 PM | #78 |
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Does that actually surprise you?... I'm not saying Toyota shouldn't have produced the car, I'm just saying especially a big manufacturer like Toyota with a good marketing budget can surely attract the people I described to buy whatever they build if its at least good looking and limited.
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12-20-2012, 10:36 PM | #79 | |
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Yeah, because they were making $175K+ on every car made? What are you smoking man? Seriously... that's good stuff. I'm sure they made a profit selling 500 alone and because it's an engineering exercise and Toyota's bread and butter is mass-produced cars, then maybe the point of this was to actually develop new tech for cheaper cars? I dunno, I'm just speculating - maybe they meant for it to be the next Corvette??? |
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12-20-2012, 10:43 PM | #80 | |
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12-20-2012, 11:45 PM | #81 | |
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12-21-2012, 03:15 AM | #82 | |
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12-21-2012, 05:43 AM | #83 | ||
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Interior is a matter of taste, but honestly, I don't see much difference between the two. And it's not like the LFA interior is all that special. Not that it's bad, but it's nothing ground-breaking for a $100+k sports car. Quote:
In independent testing, the standard LFA has trouble keeping up with Mercedes SLS, Gallardos, GT-Rs and Z06s. |
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12-21-2012, 08:50 AM | #84 |
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did not the nsx have only about 270 at introduction? that's not a whole lot more than the archaic contemporary Porsche motor. I really like the nsx but feel it's performance is a bit overstated. the engineering and construction were a bit ahead it's time but the real novelty was that it was Japanese. It really wasn't much faster than a vanilla 911 and was slower than a contemporary turbo.
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12-21-2012, 11:09 AM | #85 |
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12-21-2012, 11:57 AM | #86 |
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12-21-2012, 01:27 PM | #87 |
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Isn't there some kind ass backwards purchase scheme that Lexus has with these cars? IIRC, it was almost like a lease and if you ever wanted to sell it, Lexus had first right of refusal on it?
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12-21-2012, 01:43 PM | #88 | ||
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12-23-2012, 09:41 PM | #89 | ||||
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Where did I imply that they were making $175k per car? Lexus stated that they would not make a profit on the car, hence the $400k price tag. Logically, if Lexus lowered the price and upped production, they would turn a profit on the LFA. Price it in the area of the SLS, R8GT, California, and Aston range. That is my point regarding pricing (well, and that the LFA produces about the same performance as vehicles at that price point). Lexus makes Corvettes? Here are some of the accolades of the LFA you posted: Quote:
. . . and nobody cares about which tires the car has. It should have the best tires available at that price-point. Quote:
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12-24-2012, 12:32 AM | #90 | |
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12-24-2012, 09:44 AM | #91 |
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White out, I get it that you are not a fan of the LFA for your reasons, but acceleration and lap times are only one very small metric to which cars are judged. Is the GTR fast, yes, is the LFA fast, yes, is the Viper Fast, yes, is the Lambo fast, yes. THey are all fast. A tenth or three either way does not make a hill of beans, as none of the cars will ever be tracked in a competition where tenths matter. What matters is the experience of driving a car.
A classic 100k+ dollar Jaguar E type will get positively destroyed by even the most humble cars today, but that does not mean it is not a wonderful car that provides a sensational driving experience. I would gather the LFA is breathtaking to drive. Its tactile feelings and its aural note will make it unique among any other car out there. Yes there are faster super cars for less money, but NOTHING on this planet outside of an F1 car sounds like an LFA. And that is worth something to somebody. I would not care if the GTR was faster. I certainly do not care if the Viper is faster. Comparing the viper to the LFA is like comparing a neanderthal with a club to a Olympic Fencer. In a fight the neanderthal will certainly prevail, but I know which I would rather be on a daily basis. The LFA will hold its value for ever. Much like the McLaren. As there is nothing on the planet that is street legal that can offer what it offers. |
12-24-2012, 09:49 AM | #92 | |
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The LFA is a great piece of engineering. No need to talk down on it or Asian manufacturers. |
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12-24-2012, 03:31 PM | #93 | |
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In regards to the interior of the LFA. Here is a good example of a supercar interior:
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I used Viper as a base since it beat the race-LFA at a track the LFA was named after. The Z06 is currently having its way with the GenIV and GenV Viper, so a Corvette has the ability to out-run the LFA. Way to set the bar high Lexus. I would much rather drive a '67 E-Type than an LFA. It has looks, soul, and you would reek of fuel/exhaust upon arrival at the destination. Nobody would question your automotive choice (or fragrance). Where as in the Lexus, you would have to explain why it's a cool car and that yes, it is a $400k Lexus. A supercar needs no explanation. As far as sound... seriously, go listen to a CGT in real life. Blows away the Lexus (or anything short of F1 for that matter). But above all, the marketing firm hired by Lexus did an outstanding job of forever engraining in our minds, the LFA's ability to do this: The last time I saw an LFA Lexus claimed that they pushed the envelope with the LFA. In comparison to other cars available, they mistook the strength of the envelope. ps. I have nothing against Japanese auto manufacturers |
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12-24-2012, 05:15 PM | #94 | |
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You're a broken record. If you dislike the LFA because of its performance compared to much cheap cars, that's AOK, but there's a long list of other cars you should also dislike. Honestly, I'm wondering the source of your money to go out and buy your toys, with logic like "they should have just priced it hundreds of thousands less, then it would have sold more". Once again, you completely ignoring construction costs of a car of this type, and compare it to those MUCH MUCH cheaper to make. I'm sure the CGT should have been sold at half the price as well, and the SLR too. What idiots they were for not knocking $$$,$$$ off the sticker price to sell more cars. They didn't build the car you would have liked to see from them, we get it thanks. Last edited by REX8; 12-24-2012 at 05:50 PM. |
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12-24-2012, 05:16 PM | #95 | |
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12-24-2012, 06:10 PM | #96 |
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12-24-2012, 11:27 PM | #97 | ||
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SLR and CGT were bargains compared to the Enzo/Zonda/CCX. The SLR's engine takes to mods so well. It really is an outstanding GT car with some soul (door function, exhaust exit) and faster than the LFA through the 1/4 (along with trap speed). . . From a car that came out in 2005, with an automatic transmission. Did Porsche come outright and state that they lost money on the CGT? I choose to compare the LFA to Viper because it is the only other 2 door, front engine, V10 car produced in the past 10 years. Lexus has this magnificent chassis where Viper has boxed tubular steel (the cheapest crap possible). Lexus names their best version of the car after a racetrack it sets a lap record at. Days later, Viper comes by and sets a better time. Like I said, Viper is currently getting beaten with a stick by the Z06 and the GenV thus far isn't stacking up to the expectations. Which further drops the LFA's credibility. The LFA has performance figures of a $400k car from 5 years ago. Lexus made this outstanding carbon shell supercar that can't perform as well as a Viper; an interior that is... meh; styling that fits the Scion line; a road presence that is non-existent; and a price tag that matches. . . better cars. But Lexus ran a hell of a marketing campaign. You're right, the LFA is the best car ever. Bargain of the century, and instead of taking it out for drives, owners can break glasses in their garages. As far as my logic in cars, I own a Murcielago that hits 102db at start up and is missing half the driveline. My reasonable car is a 996 powered by an LS1. In the past year I've daily driven an E36M3 and BMW 2002. And, I would take a '91 NSX over an LFA. Please try and figure out my logic in cars. |
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12-25-2012, 09:07 AM | #98 |
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I just want to cry foul on the knock against the Pagani interior. I would argue that it may be a tad on the garish side, but the quality is beyond reproach and I would further the statement by saying the interior is one of the things that made Pagani what it is today. It certainly was not performance. All supercars are fast... blah blah 600 HP, blah blah 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. A dozen cars match that spec already. Any Joe Blo can drop a supercharged LSX into a light car and get those specs (cough cough Hennesy). Displacement plus FI = mad speed. Been that way since the 1950's. Bored of it.
A new supercar tries to break into the market and make waves every month it seems. Uber cars appear from Spain, Czech., Ukraine, etc. They all try to wow us, but the problem is that you cannot wow anybody with numbers alone. It is just too easy to get into the 500+ HP realm. A 20 year old with a Small Block Chevy can build one outside of his trailer in Louisiana (ask me how I know ) So what is a supercar producer suppose to do to make an impression on a market saturated with wannabe ferraris? The equation that Pagani discovered in my mind was largely influenced by that interior. It is like nothing else. Radical, but of high quality. Comparing to a civic is not right. THis is what Civics try to emulate. But miserably fail. It is well known that the exterior of supercars are bonkers. It is a requirement of sorts. But Pagani took the very high road and made the interior bonkers as well, and it made them into a well respected super car. What I am getting at, but taking my sweet time getting to the point is that the LFA has checked all the boxes. It is wicked to look at on the outside, it is VERY nice on the inside, it is immensely fast, it makes a noise like no other car out there. It has aspects that make it unique, and that alone makes it worthy of at least an exotic title, if not super car. |
12-25-2012, 10:20 AM | #99 | |||
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Your argument about pricing is actually... Stupid. Your disdain about the LFA's price could be applied to the SLR and a myriad of cars over 100k because they all don't turn better lap times than an old Viper. But Scrappy put it best - not everyone wants to be a neanderthal with a club. Quote:
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If lap times are your primary concern, then I imagine that might be the disconnect - you are obviously a frequent trackrat that spends their time racing these cars in competition so every second around the track is important and very consequential. The rest of us aren't tracking Lambos and Vipers - we're coming from the perspective of owning a high-quality sports car and enjoying the feel, the sound, and the drive - not just a YouTube laptime. |
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12-25-2012, 10:32 AM | #100 | ||
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Porsche didn't lose money on the CGT, it was SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive than the LFA, however. Once again, no one is saying they don't understand the low performance/high price problem. No one is saying the LFA is their favorite car. However, not all people blatantly ignore what the car actual is, and why it's at least some in some aspects improvement compared to cars of ITS TYPE. Quote:
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