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06-25-2009, 01:40 PM | #376 | |
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Also, 300whp isnt THAT much on cars that weigh as much as ours, and have AWD. 300whp on a RWD car that weighs 300lbs less, could be a handful, with a lot of oversteer that most people dont have the skill level to deal with in a bad situation. 300whp on a heavy car, with AWD (therefor a lot more contollable when you stomp on it at low speeds, it accelerates instead of spinning tires and going sideways), its not that much of a safety issue (well, not much more than stock, since there are a lot of people who have no business in even a stock WRX ) Plus, the reliability factor isnt nearly as much of an issue. 300whp on an average reading dyno isnt going to put the motor into the danger zone unless the tune is REALLY bad. The tranny wont be in much more danger than stock (at this power level, if you break the tranny, it was your driving, not the power) so 300whp isnt as "serious" of a situation. Myself, I think for 90% of Subbie enthusiasts, 300whp, some nice tires, some mild suspension mods (springs/sways/good alignment) and some brake upgrades (pads/lines/fluid) is about the best day to day street setup you can get. You have enough power to run mid 12s, you will handle like a six figure supercar, and stop HARD with a very consistant pedal. When you start going beyond that, you start getting into having to upgrade things just to make the car reliable. Saying you have forged internals sounds cool, but the $$$$ you spend to put them in there will result in 0.0whp gains. They are stronger, they dont make more power. So your overall dollar per hp gain value goes way down. That said, its a necessity when you want to go to high levels reliably. So for some, its the right choice. Now, of course all this talk of 300whp being a realistic reliable day to day setup with no major upgrades needed to handle it, all depends on the dyno you are thinking about. 300whp on some dynos is nothing. But I speak of an "average" reading dynos. So keep this in mind when you go for a goal. If you are used to your local shops dyno, then find out how it reads. For instance, the local dyno here in town, 300whp is BIG, and you may have issues on stock internals. On an average dyno, no problem
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06-25-2009, 01:41 PM | #377 |
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I can tell you that lower to mid 20's on 100 on a smaller turbo is definitely more than enough to be dangerous. Yours will be even more evil.
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06-25-2009, 02:59 PM | #378 |
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very intresting thank you for taking the time to post something like this. I jumped head first into the subaru family with my 04 sti last september. I didn't want to like start making it a fire breathing monster or anything. I knew the kind of power these things can throw down.
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06-25-2009, 04:33 PM | #379 | |
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06-26-2009, 12:08 PM | #380 |
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Sometimes when people have high horsepower goals i wonder if all they want to have is a "dyno queen". Most folks i know(import & domestic) that are serious have time oriented goals. They want to run a track or rally course in a certain time or lay down low numbers at the 1/4 mile .
I think we all have heard of guys that claim to dyno numbers of 400 or higher but when we (if ever) see a timeslip...its like WTF????? |
06-28-2009, 04:34 PM | #381 |
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Best thread Ive read.
2 Thumbs up |
06-28-2009, 04:35 PM | #382 |
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250 hp feels like 400+ in winter which is 60% of the time anyways haha.
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07-04-2009, 05:45 AM | #383 |
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now lets make a sticky about " I WANT 500WHP" .... LOL
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07-06-2009, 03:00 AM | #384 |
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07-06-2009, 03:01 AM | #385 |
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07-07-2009, 02:18 AM | #386 |
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07-07-2009, 06:25 AM | #387 |
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+1 for this sticky. Nice thread. I am new to the Subies and I gotta say this is very informative. I was looking to make somewhere in the area of 320-350 whp. This gives me a start. Thanks
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07-07-2009, 09:27 AM | #388 |
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Read thru most of this and felt I needed to post a reply (plus I've had like 8 cups of coffee)...
I owned the same 95 civic si for close to 9 years while living in hills of MO and loved it. I knew it would never make huge HP numbers and thus spent my mod dollars on suspension (and eventually several sets of brake pads and tires). The car was on rails with Tokico Illuminas and Eibach Sportlines. As I worked in restaurants at the time I had a 3 AM 9mi. commute 6 days a week through some of the BEST roller coaster roads in the states (you guys n gals would sh** if you knew "my" road). Point being- over the course of a few years I learned to drive the snot out of this car (through twisties not stoplight shenanigans) and with simple maintenance no major component ever failed. I drove that car within an inch of its life almost every night of the week... Then I got a WRX. While the eventual acceleration was great, the lag was absolutely killing me. I couldn't deal with it and went out and got a huuuge loan on a 05 STI which put me upside down (on the loan) almost immediately. OMG, the car was great, boost seemed instant and the power seemed endless (remember what I was coming from). Point being- the STi scared the sh** out of me. I couldn't drive "my" road near as fast as I could with the Si. The car was so much faster and handled so differently, I soon realized it was going to take a good long while to learn to drive this thing effectively. I was bummed at first but then realized that eventually I would be a superhero in this thing. I began the process all over again, kept the car bone stock, and loved every minute of driving my fast car so much slower than driving my slow car @ 8-10/10. (Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved winding up the Civic but learning the STi was so much more fun than eeking out the last .2 seconds in the Honda) Finances forced the sale of the STi (which I never came close to mastering as I had the Si) Luckily the economy hadn't tanked as bad yet and I got most of my money out of it (I think because it was not modified). When I could, I bought another WRX (I found a Limited in MN and when I saw the sun roof and heated seats I had to have it. Me and my girl hopped a train) I now live in the city again (StL) and have little or no opportunity to drive my fav two laners. Enter AutoX and RallyX. I have driven in two events for a total of ~10 runs. I learned so much about driving an AWD car doing this, and as I am getting older (36) the safety factor is a huge added bonus. PB- I look back and realize that I'll probably never get to drive like that again on a regular basis (unless I get a job as a test driver, not likely) but it doesn't bum me out as much as it makes me feel lucky that I'm still here (Esp when I had the STi down there). I always said the only thing I fear is State Troopers and deer (you could see oncoming traffic miles away @ night) when in fact, there were so many other inherent dangers I wasn't even considering at the time. I will stand by this statement thru the harshest of flamers- Youth almost by definition equates to inexperience, coupled with the feeling of invincibility is a perfect recipe for tragedy. All that being said, I miss the response of my STi and since I will probably be keeping my current car for a good long while, I will eventually go with a bigger turbo, supporting mods, and a tune. And no, I am not shooting for 400hp but will build for throttle response. And I will only do this after a few sets of brake pads. As the children are our future a valid argument for natural selection can be made however if I was a parent I know I couldn't bear the loss of a child or the thought of maiming/disfiguring/killing someone else. PB- To the youth out there- you have no idea how happy we are that you are getting into cars and modifying them, etc. but please please realize that you are at the beginning of a never ending learning process that in and of itself is the true prize. We want you to gain a lifetime of knowledge to pass on to the next generation and if you are dead, have brain damage, or are locked up for involuntary manslaughter this is not possible. Try to rise above, take a few minutes and ask yourself if what you are risking is truly worth it. |
07-07-2009, 01:24 PM | #389 |
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great thread, thanks guys!
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07-07-2009, 05:25 PM | #390 | |
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07-08-2009, 04:25 AM | #391 | |
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Last time I said that I got jumped all over by a 17 year old dude who swore he was a great driver, and has more than enough experience. He totalled the car 2 weeks later. And the next 2 cars after that. He still, to this day, at 19, talks about what an incredibly talented driver he is. Dont get me wrong, not all younger drivers are bad, and some COULD handle the power. The reality is, those mentally equipped to handle the power, are rarely the people who are on the quest for that kind of power. |
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07-09-2009, 02:32 PM | #392 |
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with great HP power comes great responsibility
... baaaaaaazziiiingggggggggg |
07-09-2009, 02:53 PM | #393 |
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I was super stoopid when i was young. I had that 2.5RS and drove like a dumbass. When i was 19 in 04 i bought my STi and initially was very dumb with the amount of power that car gave me.
Luckily I learned the responsibility that came with the power before anything tragic happened. Now i'm too tired from autoXing to drive fast......... |
07-09-2009, 04:50 PM | #394 | |
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07-09-2009, 05:52 PM | #395 |
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This thread is a gold mine. I waited til my mid twenties to mod my WRX. It was the right decision, I couldn't imagine what I would have done to myself with it as it is at 19 or 20. With my EJ207 I was hitting ~400whp and not only was it EXPENSIVE to achieve (block, pistons, rods, bearings, turbo, injectors, ecu, exhaust, intake, intercooler,..... I could go on forever) but it also makes the car less reliable and less comfortable. When I took it out for the first time after I put the EJ207 in it I almost killed myself. It totally made me re-evaluate my driving style, my views on speeding, and my respect for professional drivers. 400whp is no joke. Now that I've spun a bearing and have to rebuild the engine, I'm taking my time and evaluating what I really want and trying to make sure I have the right parts to support a high output engine as well as the brakes to stop it.
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07-09-2009, 10:12 PM | #396 |
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Fantastic write up!
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07-12-2009, 01:57 PM | #397 |
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this is very well done. but no one does need that much power on the streets just like everyone else says. everyone should just look to make there car fun and capable to handle for them. too much power can deffintley screw you over weather you cant drive or dont get a tune whatever. in my wrx im looking to have more fun and ill be happy with 100 more horespower cause thats all i feel i need to be satisfied and i believe that may be a start to gettting used to handle. then maybe step it up if i want more.
but anyway very well done post couldnt of said it better myself |
07-13-2009, 05:47 PM | #398 |
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Very nice write up! I guess I could be considered one of those stupid kids, never got into any accidents or got any tickets just got bit by the mod bug and have the sudden urge for boost since I payed off my 2.5rs I bought 2 years ago. Kinda just looking into my options for now at the moment, looking into motor swaps and looking at different platforms like evo's, sti's and wrx's. For now just liking my money in my pockets
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07-15-2009, 10:46 PM | #399 |
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Yea I was one of those young and dumb ones, and got lucky once, which was plenty enough. I got a little experience in my 03 wrx before stepping up to my sti, and still now, after a year of owning it, still have yet to make an engine mod past intake and exhaust (no stg 2 lol), my focus has been suspension and brakes, when I have those where I want, I'll really get a feel for the car and then slowly add from there. Thanks for a great write up
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07-15-2009, 10:48 PM | #400 | |
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Quote:
its cool. I'm not going to be getting anything for a while so I've got time. |
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