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01-23-2013, 04:21 PM | #51 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 237008
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region:
E. Canada
Location: Montreal
Vehicle:2010 WRX STI Satin White Pearl |
Quote:
2. If you're kicking everyone's butt on the road, you're clearly driving among 2WD motorists, and possibly ones with all seasons. In Montreal, lots and lots of people drive AWD cars, from Subs to Audis to Rubicons. We're required by law starting from December to have winter tires. When driving the Legacy, it was interesting to drive side-by-side with the better AWD cars. They had a better initial pickup in snow falls. Why would I even bother comparing my AWD performance to a Civic's? That's like saying that my fitness is fantastic because I hit the treadmill once a week--I just beat that old geezer at the track. What kind of standard is that? 3. You're satisfied that your stuff does what you want. Having owned a product that was similar to yours, I can say that I don't like your stuff. Why should you care? My post was an opinion piece. You don't have to agree. As a fitness freak, people often ask me why I bother training past the recommended health standards. They're happy at that level, and they're puzzled by why I'm not. Then they start feeling bad about why I want to push myself further. I can't relate to this common type of behavior. Your AWD system is bad. Why should that bother you if it lives up to your expectations?
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01-23-2013, 04:26 PM | #52 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 322264
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Webster, NY
Vehicle:2012 Impreza Sp 5sp Obs Blk Prl/Drk Gray Mtl |
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01-23-2013, 04:28 PM | #53 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 328414
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Southern California
Vehicle:2012 Impreza SP 5MT obsidian pearl black |
Does that make it bad if it doesn't bother you or lives up to your expectations?
edit Where does everyone keep their spare set of tires? Public storage? Not everyone has garages or basements, I imagine. |
01-23-2013, 04:31 PM | #54 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 322264
Join Date: Jun 2012
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Webster, NY
Vehicle:2012 Impreza Sp 5sp Obs Blk Prl/Drk Gray Mtl |
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01-23-2013, 04:43 PM | #55 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 319157
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Vehicle:2012 Impreza 4DR 5MT |
I'm with sgoldste01.
Some AWD systems are for getting a high-powered car around a track as quickly as possible. The Impreza's is for distributing power between its wheels without adding much weight, complexity, drag and cost. VDC uses existing brake components to get the car moving and keep it from spinning out. "E-diffs" aren't meant for the track. They're for poor conditions where your 300+ HP won't make it to the ground, regardless of what AWD system you have. This is one of many reasons I'm glad the Impreza broke away from the WRX/STI. |
01-23-2013, 05:59 PM | #56 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 299286
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:2017 Legacy Limited White |
Nope, the performance of the car is clearly mind over matter.
Performance on ice might improve with studs. But that isn't because the metal stud sticks into the ice, it is because you think it is helping. In fact, the same applies in the gym, as any fitness buff knows. It's all mental. |
01-23-2013, 06:22 PM | #57 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 331332
Join Date: Sep 2012
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MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:2014 Camry SE V6 Silver |
Quote:
I live in Minnesota and can't recall ever being in a situation where only one or two wheels is on ice and the others aren't. Snow and/or ice usually cover the whole road. I could probably do without the VCU and be just fine. I don't think the 1% of the time where the VCU might not work as well as other more sophisticated setups means that my $20K AWD car sucks. I second what others have said, my Impreza has been a beast in snow storms here where others were struggling. BTW, I'm so jealous of your fitness regimen and wish I was in as good of shape as you are. |
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01-23-2013, 06:56 PM | #58 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 237008
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Chapter/Region:
E. Canada
Location: Montreal
Vehicle:2010 WRX STI Satin White Pearl |
Quote:
It has very little to do with one system being better for the track or not. One is simply much less costly to make. Certainly, most track performance cars will have lsds compared to non-performance cars. It's also because they're more expensive as well. Look at the Outback XT VTD. That car had a rear clutch-type lsd and planetary gear center diff and it certainly was not meant for the track. It also had VDC, which really made it quite the AWD monster combined with its high ride height. It would simply annihilate any of today's Outbacks hands down (as in absolutely no debate there). The down side was that it was very expensive, and had low demand. The STI has 3 settings for electronic nannies. One with traction control and VDC on, one with only VDC on, and one completely off. It's not really recommended to use either of the first two modes on the track unless you want your brakes to catch fire. Unfortunately, weakness of the Torsen lsds could really benefit from the electronic setup, but that's on a different topic altogether. Lastly, I'm saying the VCU is bad because (insert performance lacking argument here). The relevant counter to this argument for those of you who disagree is something that proves that the VCU actually does something useful other than stink up your cabin when your wheels spin. Saying that you like it doesn't counter my argument. Saying that the system works fine for what you need it only implies that you only need an open diff. Like, I'm glad that you're glad, but I never asked anyone if they were happy with their VCU. It's like me saying that I'm having trouble running the 40 yard dash due to a limp, and someone countering with "I have a limp, and all those guys have limps, and we're just fine walking across the street." Last edited by sti2010rl; 01-23-2013 at 08:33 PM. |
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01-23-2013, 07:38 PM | #59 | ||
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 319157
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Vehicle:2012 Impreza 4DR 5MT |
Quote:
Quote:
Don't be so sure that Subaru's VDC implementation is identical across the line-up. Have you actually driven a 2012+ Impreza in bad weather? |
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01-23-2013, 08:22 PM | #60 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 237008
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Vehicle:2010 WRX STI Satin White Pearl |
Quote:
Everyone lives in Minnesota. You happen not to experience the worst conditions, and therefore the rest of us don't experience them either. My argument that the VCU sucks is completely trumped by your contention that we don't need a good one anyway. I could probably spot you across any crowded room: that dude with his mouth always open. Yes, your car's AWD absolutely sucks compared to the AWD systems in similar price ranges including, but not limited to: SX4 (manually locking diff), Lancer AWD (no, not the EVO, and it has a manually locking diff), and last but not least, the automatic Impreza. Your car is a beast in snow compared to other what's struggling? Mopeds? FWD cars with bald tires? Rubicons? I've posted about my fitness regimen? Ah yes, I did post some PR numbers in NASIOC OT's Powerlifting threads. You know, you definitely should consider powerlifting. You'd be a great candidate, being a mouthbreather and all (you want to forcefully inhale and exhale with your mouth). Last edited by sti2010rl; 01-23-2013 at 10:04 PM. |
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01-23-2013, 08:31 PM | #61 |
Scooby Newbie
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No I haven't. My fiance's impreza is a MY2011 4EAT. I'm assuming that it should be similar. Maybe you're right about it being able to clamp hard at low engine speeds, but it definitely isn't the case when you're trying to rock the vehicle at of lots of snow and causing lots of wheel spin. My buddy actually has a 2012 Impreza 5MT. I actually am the person who recommended it based on price, and the fact that he absolutely wanted manual. I haven't driven his car in snow. What he definitely understands is that he shouldn't park in my driveway when it rains ice.
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01-23-2013, 08:32 PM | #62 | |
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Member#: 315631
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bryant, AR
Vehicle:2012 Impreza Sport |
Quote:
edit: also my car with dws didn't have a big issue climibing an incline covered in complete ice. |
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01-23-2013, 08:35 PM | #63 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 340297
Join Date: Dec 2012
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MWSOC
Location: Cincinnati
Vehicle:2013 Impreza 5sp Prm Ice Silver |
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01-23-2013, 08:36 PM | #64 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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NESIC
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:2017 Legacy Limited White |
Quote:
I honestly read the fitness note from Nels0300 as praise and not a dig, but you are itching for disagreement to prove your internet superiority. Good news, you've won the internet! Despite your claim of vast knowledge and infinite wisdom, I think I'll add you to the ignore list now -- probably joining the ranks of many who did the same before me. |
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01-23-2013, 08:39 PM | #65 | ||
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01-23-2013, 08:40 PM | #66 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 237008
Join Date: Jan 2010
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01-23-2013, 08:47 PM | #67 | ||
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 319157
Join Date: May 2012
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MAIC
Vehicle:2012 Impreza 4DR 5MT |
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01-23-2013, 08:49 PM | #68 |
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Wow I got schooled on laws in Quebec tonight. So FYI you don't need a superiority tone in your writing I lived in qc. I still have friends in qc and family in Toronto. I also drive vt nh upstate ny etc. everyone gets your point and simply would like proof instead of the one or two anecdotal points you have expressed. Also no need for personal attacks it weakens your position. Just my 2 cents
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01-23-2013, 08:50 PM | #69 |
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I'm sure that STI2010 is correct that the STI's AWD system is top shelf, and far superior to our Impreza's AWD system. The extra $15k in purchase price should be buying something when you buy an STI.
But the AWD system in my 5-speed Impreza works well for the kind of driving I do. If that means I only need an open diff, then so be it. This past Monday, while other cars were struggling with the icy roads (not just snow, but ice), my control wasn't just adequate. It was perfect. I wasn't dealing with controllable slipping. I wasn't dealing with slipping at all. Perhaps STI2010 is correct in that I only need an open diff. If that's the case, then my Impreza is perfect for me. I can live with that. There's no shame in that. It's like a Ford F-350 owner saying that anyone who drives a Ford Ranger is driving crap. To which the Ford Ranger owner says, "Yeah, but all I need to do is haul mulch in the spring, and pick up some plywood and 2x4s from time to time. I really don't need an F-350." To which the F-350 owner says, "Yeah, well, your Ranger is crap anyway." It's a stupid argument. The Ranger meets the needs of the mulch-buying Ranger owner. And my Impreza meets my needs. This does not make me feel inferior. |
01-23-2013, 08:53 PM | #70 | |
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I didn't brag. I used fitness as an analogy the first time. You took it as bragging. I'll admit the second time came off as real douche territory. Do I come across as pompous? I'm sorry if I do. Maybe it's because it comes across differently in writing? Either way apologies. P.S. I'm not a powerlifter, but I still use the big 3 to train for Strongman. And I'm really a big teddy bear; I don't kick people's asses, except on the internetz. |
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01-23-2013, 08:54 PM | #71 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: May 2012
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MAIC
Vehicle:2012 Impreza 4DR 5MT |
Quote:
2. The relationship between VCU rotation and torque transfer is exponential, not linear. 3. The torque it transfers is multiplied by 4.11 so it doesn't have to be nearly as large as a VC on a front or rear differential. |
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01-23-2013, 08:57 PM | #72 | |
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Quote:
And he doesn't park there because he knows how bad his VCU is based on my experience parking there in those conditions with my 5MT Leggy, his ownership of an 09 5MT 2.5i, and my incessant rants about how bad the VCU is. |
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01-23-2013, 09:01 PM | #73 | |
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Join Date: May 2012
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Quote:
For driving around in low power, low speed, poor traction situations that most people buy AWD for, the benefit is likely slim to none. |
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01-23-2013, 09:02 PM | #74 | |
Scooby Newbie
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01-23-2013, 09:05 PM | #75 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Vehicle:2012 Impreza Sp 5sp Obs Blk Prl/Drk Gray Mtl |
Commander, if you go back and read the rest of my previous post that you were quoting from, you will see that you and I are saying the same thing.
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