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Old 09-09-2016, 07:05 PM   #1
tmittleider
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Default 2011 WRX - Stage 1 Boost (Logs Included)

I recently flashed my 2011 WRX to Stage 1 91 MTv331. My car has the SPT catback exhaust, but is otherwise stock, and I consistently use 92 octane.

I've collected a few logs and don't appear to be hitting boost target (~16.5 psi for this map). TD Boost Error is well over 1 for most of a 100% throttle 3rd gear pull. DAM and knock metrics seem OK based on my limited understanding. Conditions during the logs were ~65 degrees and low elevation (~1-300 feet).

https://1drv.ms/f/s!ArDhad7AwPCoz9YnmNkSzsVyj2Y3tg

Any input on these logs would be appreciated. Logs 6 and 7 are probably most useful - they include full 3rd gear 100% throttle pulls. The rest are a mix of 3rd and a couple 4th gear pulls, but not to redline.

Do I have an issue? Should I try the HWG map? I have a similar email out to Cobb but haven't heard back yet... I have some time this weekend to tinker if needed, so any advice would help. Thanks!
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:44 PM   #2
tmittleider
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I added a few more logs (datalog10-12) at the same link. They're 3rd gear pulls at 100% throttle. I wasn't able to hit redline, but should have been able to hit near boost target. TD Boost Error is 2 to 3 when it should be peaking. Any suggestions?
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:20 AM   #3
Nito3356
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I had same boost issue. Hold up i will post my solution.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:30 AM   #4
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Go to the torqued performance website. I got a AP V3 and loaded in cobbs stage 1 91 oct map and was stuck at 15psi as well. Was kinda disappointed. Found out about TP and bought his accessport stage 1 91oct map for $99. Immediately i was hitting an 18psi target with peaks of 19psi. He also e-tuned me 7 revisions to get me running great. All for the $99 i paid for the map. As per the 8psi? You must have been running an eco map.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:30 AM   #5
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Forget the last sentence. About the 8psi
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nito3356 View Post
Go to the torqued performance website. I got a AP V3 and loaded in cobbs stage 1 91 oct map and was stuck at 15psi as well. Was kinda disappointed. Found out about TP and bought his accessport stage 1 91oct map for $99. Immediately i was hitting an 18psi target with peaks of 19psi. He also e-tuned me 7 revisions to get me running great. All for the $99 i paid for the map.
Appreciate the suggestion. I'll keep TP in mind, but not ready to shell out $99 just yet. Would like to understand if I have an underlying issue, or if Cobb's map is just really conservative.

Anyone notice an issue in my logs?
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Old 09-12-2016, 12:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmittleider View Post
Appreciate the suggestion. I'll keep TP in mind, but not ready to shell out $99 just yet. Would like to understand if I have an underlying issue, or if Cobb's map is just really conservative.

Anyone notice an issue in my logs?
Send the full pull to cobb. They will tell you.
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:49 PM   #8
tmittleider
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Cobb replied (quoted below). I知 surprised my concern with TD Boost Error wasn稚 even mentioned. Am I over-thinking this?

Do barometric compensation and intake air temp even matter when evaluating TD Boost Error? My understanding is it compares target boost (which could be modified by ECU) with actual boost, and the value should remain +/- 1 (regardless of ECU intervention). My logs are way outside this, and I知 more concerned with boost error and delivery than peak PSI.

I値l try the HWG map and see how it goes...

Quote:
There are a number of reasons why you may not be reaching target boost. There are barometric compensations within the factory ECU that lower boost targets as you climb in altitude in an effort to keep the turbocharger in its optimal range. These compensations still remain in the COBB OTS mapping and it is perfectly normal for the final boost target to be lower than what is listed for your map. There are similar compensations made with regard to intake air temperature. If air temperature is colder, your ECU will be able to reach requested torque at lower boost levels. A lower target will then imposed to prevent overboost issues which were common on previous platforms when operating in colder climates.

You can always try running the HWG(high wastegate) version of the Stage 1 91 octane map to see if that helps!

It is likely that you will still see some instances of timing corrections being made under Fine Knock Learn. The reason for this is that the Subaru knock detection system is not exactly as precise as it could be in a perfect world. Noise can be erroneously reported as 'false knock', this can be caused by anything from a loose heat shield or intercooler bracket to a bumpy road. False knock can also be reported as a result of drastic throttle input, so it is common to see these timing corrections following a WOT pull or when letting off of the pedal suddenly.

Over all, your logs look good, there was one timing correction, but it was quite small and quickly deprecated to 0 so it's noting major to be too worried about. It is possible that they are the result of poor quality fuel, but it is likely that you will always see some corrections.
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Old 09-13-2016, 06:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmittleider View Post
Cobb replied (quoted below). I知 surprised my concern with TD Boost Error wasn稚 even mentioned. Am I over-thinking this?

Do barometric compensation and intake air temp even matter when evaluating TD Boost Error? My understanding is it compares target boost (which could be modified by ECU) with actual boost, and the value should remain +/- 1 (regardless of ECU intervention). My logs are way outside this, and I知 more concerned with boost error and delivery than peak PSI.

I値l try the HWG map and see how it goes...
Lol Cobb. I'm so glad i ditched that map. Lots of people have boost issues with there 331 maps. Google it.
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Old 09-13-2016, 08:57 PM   #10
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the maps are conservative for a reason, they are generic tunes made for 1,000's of different cars to run. try the hwg map see if it helps. you can also try a helper spring on the WG if that's your issue.

if you're concenred if it's tune or mechanical, reset the ECU and do a pull. if you now hit target boost then it's the tune/your ecu lowering boost. if you reset and it's still not close, or it's exactly the same as it was then it's most likely something mechanical. make sure all of your boost hoses are installed and in good condition, check intercooler and bov connections etc.
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:20 AM   #11
tmittleider
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Thanks hondaeater. These are the kind of suggestions I've been looking for from Cobb. Very helpful for someone new to AP and tuning.

Cobb's last response to me is below. Seems like they're avoiding the issue by making overly generic statements. Boost error is well outside their recommended +/- 1 spec when I should be making good boost (~3k-5k WOT). Is this what I should expect from them? Seemed like people have been happy with their support, but I've been underwhelmed so far.

Quote:
TD Boost error is the delta between the boost target at that moment and actual boost being achieved. It is not the end all indicator of what you should actually be achieving as boost target is frequently an unattainable theoretical value.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:18 PM   #12
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they suggested trying their HWG map, did you?
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmittleider View Post
Thanks hondaeater. These are the kind of suggestions I've been looking for from Cobb. Very helpful for someone new to AP and tuning.

Cobb's last response to me is below. Seems like they're avoiding the issue by making overly generic statements. Boost error is well outside their recommended +/- 1 spec when I should be making good boost (~3k-5k WOT). Is this what I should expect from them? Seemed like people have been happy with their support, but I've been underwhelmed so far.
I am telling you by experience. When i had the Cobb map running my target boost said 27psi. What? What Cobb recently did with there 3.3xx maps is to do a collective map of a group vehicles instead of. Vehicle specific. Making there maps very generic, as stated by Honda. Therefore of course its not going to run as good as it should. I hate to press the issue. But TP mostly all he does is WRX. Started in 2008. Think he has a handle on WTF is going on.
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Old 09-15-2016, 12:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69 View Post
they suggested trying their HWG map, did you?
Haven't had the chance to log yet, so no. I joined the "I sheared the turbo --> IC bolt" club and need time to drill that sucker out.

It does look like I had the IC --> TB hose issue which may have been leaking boost. Connection at TB was questionable and, once removed, it looked just like pics and vids I've seen around. Hoping to get things back together soon, securely, and logging then to see how it goes.
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Old 09-15-2016, 11:41 PM   #15
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I've ran the stage 2 TP map for months never had 1 single problem. Eric knows his ****. Download his map, run your logs and send to him. He will look them over and adjust to your car. Make sure you let him know everything about the car. Mods, intentions, driving style, everything. He will continue to readjustas needed. He is fast at adjustments too, I sent him logs once at 3pm and got a new map to run at 5pm. If money is an issue then don't tune. 99bucks is nothing compared to the money your gonna spend if you decide to go stage 2 or above. Let alone the rest of the car. I look at it as a $99 assurance that it will run right. It's cheaper than a new block believe me been there...
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Old 09-16-2016, 07:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy6908 View Post
I've ran the stage 2 TP map for months never had 1 single problem. Eric knows his ****. Download his map, run your logs and send to him. He will look them over and adjust to your car. Make sure you let him know everything about the car. Mods, intentions, driving style, everything. He will continue to readjustas needed. He is fast at adjustments too, I sent him logs once at 3pm and got a new map to run at 5pm. If money is an issue then don't tune. 99bucks is nothing compared to the money your gonna spend if you decide to go stage 2 or above. Let alone the rest of the car. I look at it as a $99 assurance that it will run right. It's cheaper than a new block believe me been there...
Your comments on TP are useful. Your condescending assumptions starting with $ ... aren't.

What if $99 is a big deal - should I give up and sell my AP to some kid with rich parents? Why should I do anything other than confirm and fix potential mechanical issues first? What if I would be happy with a Cobb OTS map? Tell me again why I should pay TP for a map that I don't want at this point?

Reality is $99 isn't the problem. Addressing potential mechanical issues is my priority. If I go stage 2 + (unlikely in this car), I would pro tune.
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Old 09-17-2016, 02:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmittleider View Post
Your comments on TP are useful. Your condescending assumptions starting with $ ... aren't.

What if $99 is a big deal - should I give up and sell my AP to some kid with rich parents? Why should I do anything other than confirm and fix potential mechanical issues first? What if I would be happy with a Cobb OTS map? Tell me again why I should pay TP for a map that I don't want at this point?

Reality is $99 isn't the problem. Addressing potential mechanical issues is my priority. If I go stage 2 + (unlikely in this car), I would pro tune.
Wasn't being condescending. More or less stating that if you want a tune but worried about price then don't tune. I never said anything about not fixing other issues. If you have other issues that need to be fixed then you shouldn't be asking for advise on tuning in the first place. Getting defensive on people trying to help you isn't going to get you help. Ultimately its your car and your money but when you ask for help or ideas expect open answers.
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Old 09-18-2016, 11:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy6908 View Post
Wasn't being condescending. More or less stating that if you want a tune but worried about price then don't tune. I never said anything about not fixing other issues. If you have other issues that need to be fixed then you shouldn't be asking for advise on tuning in the first place. Getting defensive on people trying to help you isn't going to get you help. Ultimately its your car and your money but when you ask for help or ideas expect open answers.
It's perfectly reasonable for someone to be happy with a stage 1 OTS map and therefore have no need to spend more. I understand tuning can be expensive. It doesn't have to be. My objective for now is to optimize what I have.

Your comment on not asking for "tuning" advice before I address mechanical issues makes no sense in this context. I agree if the issue is known. The AP datalog is precisely what led me to suspect a mechanical issue. I then took action to investigate and fix it.
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Old 09-18-2016, 11:12 PM   #19
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I fixed the sheared turbo --> IC bolt by drilling through it with progressively larger bits, then re-tapping the threads. It took time, but wasn't as bad as I'd expected.

I reassembled everything properly and I'm building boost earlier which is nice. I'm also peaking just over 16 PSI on some logs. I do think the TB connection was leaking.

I'm still not quite at target boost, even with the HWG map. TD Boost Error is still over 1 through most of a WOT pull, but it's not as bad as before. My plan is to keep an eye on things with the HWG map and see how it goes. This might be as good as it gets with the current OTS map.
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Old 09-19-2016, 12:03 AM   #20
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Check your turbo inlet pipe and clamps they are prone to failure. Also ive had the same problem with the IC bolt. I did some searching and found that using a thick waterneck gasket for a sbc fits the IC to Turbo connection with slight timing works wonders to seal as apposed to just the rubber gasket. To follow up on your last, I was only stating that if you were having issues with what you thought was the tune, to try another one (tp) which has been far better for a lot of people then Cobbs standard ots. That was prior to knowing you had other possible issues. Goodluck
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Old 09-19-2016, 06:29 AM   #21
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Are Cobb tunes really as bad as a lot of people make them out to be?
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizontal_Ali View Post
Are Cobb tunes really as bad as a lot of people make them out to be?
I believe their HWG map helped a bit in my case. However, TD Boost Error is still outside their +/- 1 target at ~2 on average from ~3k to 5k RPM.

I have another email out to Cobb hoping for suggestions, but I suspect it may be as good as it gets with the current map (and from their support). It'd be a shame since their map notes and +/- 1 TD Boost Error target indicate I知 not where I should be:
  • Stage1 91 MT
  • Fuel Requirements: 91 - 92 octane or better
  • Intake Requirements: Stock airbox with stock air filter
  • Exhaust Requirements: Stock exhaust or upgraded cat-back exho aust
  • Boost Targets: ~16.5psi peak boost pressure tapering down to ~11.5psi by the 7000RPM redline, +/- 1.0psi
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