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Old 06-11-2012, 03:51 PM   #326
gizmotron2030
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^Seems like they are pushing close to the limits of what they can do from the supporting mods they have; risky for track day. When they test the 10cm hot side you should see the boost carry on through the high rpm range before it drops and the power will looks like a continuous climb until late rpm. At least thats what I experienced with dom3 xtr 10cm hot side. I just dont agree with pushing a turbo near max for a number goal. With the 1.5 and constant lapping on a track (25-45min of hard driving depending on the track and event promoter) you run the risk of damaging the motor. Topspeed is trying to reach a max output of 400whp with basic affordable supporting mods. Good for drag racing and auto-x; not got good for road racing, HPDE, or time attack. You want your car to make the power with a large enough buffer for durability without compromise of performance.

Not saying its a bad setup, just saying 400whp with the 1.5 is risky for a track day. BTW according to some guys in this thread, e85 is hard to find in germany. You might be stuck with 93.

With your car's weight; you would kill some folks on the track with 350whp

Here's a vid I made (please excuse the cheesy music; only thing I can think of to block the wind noise). Car made 345whp/365wtq dom3 xtr 10cm hot side; built short block stock heads 93oct.
http://youtu.be/Xyz8qqzsg-E
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Last edited by gizmotron2030; 06-11-2012 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Non-typing skillz and responding to wrong person
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Old 06-11-2012, 03:51 PM   #327
gizmotron2030
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stupid afghan internet double post
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Old 06-11-2012, 04:51 PM   #328
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Wow! Lots of information from you guys. E85 is very very rare here. What do you guys think of a Dom 3 with forged internals pushing 8k red line? Don't know much but figured bigger turbo equals turbo lag so having 8k redline can open power band, true or false?
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Old 06-11-2012, 07:16 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxfr3ak227 View Post
Wow! Lots of information from you guys. E85 is very very rare here. What do you guys think of a Dom 3 with forged internals pushing 8k red line? Don't know much but figured bigger turbo equals turbo lag so having 8k redline can open power band, true or false?
True. Thats why I'm running Kelford 272/272 cams with my dom3 XTR. 8300 redline. Forged internals of course
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:12 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmotron2030 View Post
^Seems like they are pushing close to the limits of what they can do from the supporting mods they have; risky for track day. When they test the 10cm hot side you should see the boost carry on through the high rpm range before it drops and the power will looks like a continuous climb until late rpm. At least thats what I experienced with dom3 xtr 10cm hot side. I just dont agree with pushing a turbo near max for a number goal. With the 1.5 and constant lapping on a track (25-45min of hard driving depending on the track and event promoter) you run the risk of damaging the motor. Topspeed is trying to reach a max output of 400whp with basic affordable supporting mods. Good for drag racing and auto-x; not got good for road racing, HPDE, or time attack. You want your car to make the power with a large enough buffer for durability without compromise of performance.

Not saying its a bad setup, just saying 400whp with the 1.5 is risky for a track day. BTW according to some guys in this thread, e85 is hard to find in germany. You might be stuck with 93.

With your car's weight; you would kill some folks on the track with 350whp

Here's a vid I made (please excuse the cheesy music; only thing I can think of to block the wind noise). Car made 345whp/365wtq dom3 xtr 10cm hot side; built short block stock heads 93oct.
http://youtu.be/Xyz8qqzsg-E
From what I've been reading the 1.5XTR is rated at 470. Top Speed's tests were pushing it for what the Intercooler and some of the other mods could handle.

Here is the guy tuned by Top Speed with 404 WHP with a good looking power curve. This would make a pretty good Track day tune I would think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkb2198 View Post
2004 WRX STI PSM

ej257 @99.75mm
8.5 to 1 comp ratio
Ball Racing Track 1 Short Block
B.R.E.D Pistons (Mahles)
Manley H-Beam Rods
King Race Bearings
ARP Head studs
New Subaru OEM crank
New Subaru OEM Case Bolts
12 point Oil Passage Modification
Pinning of the deck to stabilize cylinder walls
O-Ringed Deck (specific height designed to work with OEM MLS headgaskets)
Pinned block with o-ringed headgaskets
Ferrea 1mm oversize valves
GSC Beehive Springs and Retainers
GSC S1 Cams


11mm oil pump
Killer B oil pickup
Blouch Dominator 1.5-xtr with 10cm hotside 2.5 inlet
Agency Power uel header and up pipe
Invidia divorced down pipe and N1 turbo back exhaust
Amr T.m.i.c with forge motorsport recirc valve (yellow spring)
Aeromotive 340lph fuel pump
Deatschwerks 850cc side feed injectors. stock rails.
Allpro tgv "deletes"
Perrin cai with built in maf housing.
Perrin 2.5 inch turbo inlet
All Pro phenolic spacers for intake manifold
One step colder plugs.
brand new front A/F sensor
Grimmspeed e.b.c.s


Mishimoto radiator
Moroso air/oil seperator
Moroso coolant and expansion tanks
Perrin Light weight pulley
Perrin pulley cover
Perrin oil cap
Perrin battery tie down


Whiteline adjustable front and rear swaybars
Whiteline end links
BC coilovers


By jkb2198 at 2012-04-09

On Pump Gas 93 21.5 lbs of boost. Tuned @ Topspeed by Doug Wilkes.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:39 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renegadeSTi View Post
From what I've been reading the 1.5XTR is rated at 470. Top Speed's tests were pushing it for what the Intercooler and some of the other mods could handle.

Here is the guy tuned by Top Speed with 404 WHP with a good looking power curve. This would make a pretty good Track day tune I would think.
He definitely has the mods to support durability for a track day and the 404hp. Thats a way more durable set up than a stock motor, headers, uppipe, TMIC and TBE.

As for the hp rating on the turbos, that what they are capable when they are flow tested and mounted to a motor on a engine dyno; they can produce enough forced air to make 480hp not 480whp. So that would yield about what this guy is making if you figure the drive train loss with the weight of the car.
http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Blou...2-2011-WRX-STI

So what you see is this guy, with supporting mods, maxing the 1.5's capacity. That's why I say its risky. He has the mods to support the power but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a track day tune pushing 19-20psi rather than 21.5psi. Remember running your motor hard for 30min is way different from 12sec.

Here is a thread you should read if you really want to know what it takes to power with a subaru:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2076135
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:05 PM   #332
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Oh, here is my mod list to make 400whp:

Engine:
Short block:
Manley pistons 99.5
Manley rods
ACL race bearings
Nitrated STi OEM crank
ACL main bearings
Heads:
Kelford 272/272
Supertech dual valve springs and retainer kit
Supertech valve seals
Supertech iconnel exhaust valves
TGV deletes (OEM TGVs machined)
Aeromotive 340lph fuel pump
DW 850 (thinking about 1000cc injectors)
Perrin fuel rail kit
Crawford air/oil separator
APS 525 FMIC
APS 70mm cai
no name uppipe (can't remember the brand for some reason)
Dom3 xtr 10cm hotside
stromung divorced dp with ebay aps knock off cat back
ETS el header
Mishimoto radiator
Mishimoto 160 degree thermostat (purchased before I got orders to germany)
Mishimoto fan shroud
Gates Timing component kit
I think I might be forgetting some stuff.

For ****z and giggs
Supension:
Fortuneauto 500 track spec coils
Perrin ALK
Hotchkis endlinks
Cobb 25mm F/R sways
Whitline adjustable F/R lateral links
TIC trailing arms coming soon

Drive train:
Full 05 Sti drive train with 5x114 hubs
ACT street light clutch

Brakes:
Stoptech ST-40 BBK coming soon
rears will be oem brembos

Wheels:
17x8.5 Gramlights 57s
255/40/17 Dirrezas Starspecs
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:19 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmotron2030 View Post
He definitely has the mods to support durability for a track day and the 404hp. Thats a way more durable set up than a stock motor, headers, uppipe, TMIC and TBE.

As for the hp rating on the turbos, that what they are capable when they are flow tested and mounted to a motor on a engine dyno; they can produce enough forced air to make 480hp not 480whp. So that would yield about what this guy is making if you figure the drive train loss with the weight of the car.

So what you see is this guy, with supporting mods, maxing the 1.5's capacity. That's why I say its risky. He has the mods to support the power but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a track day tune pushing 19-20psi rather than 21.5psi. Remember running your motor hard for 30min is way different from 12sec.

Here is a thread you should read if you really want to know what it takes to power with a subaru:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2076135
I did not know the part where they rate the turbo on an engine Dyno. So how did Top Speed make more than the 404 WHP during their tests? It doesn't make sense that a guy with proper supporting mods maxed out the turbo on 93 but the same tuner made more.

I take WHP dyno numbers with a grain of salt since each dyno will give different numbers. I will have to talk with my tuner in CO when I get home before the tune and discuss it further with him.

I do understand the whole road course track day versus 1/4 drag strip track day on severity. The hardest driving on your engine is daily driving for the most part. I will say that road course track driving will tear down a car very quickly, though.

I would love to hit the 400HP mark but as long as driving it still puts a smile on my face then I am happy. My car brightens my day up no matter what my day has been like. whether I make 450WHP or just 375WHP I'm sure this setup will make me happy for a long time to come.

I am still shooting for a sub 8 min lap on the Nurburgring and I will start by practicing with the 22B on Forza and memorize the turns.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:43 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renegadeSTi View Post
I did not know the part where they rate the turbo on an engine Dyno. So how did Top Speed make more than the 404 WHP during their tests? It doesn't make sense that a guy with proper supporting mods maxed out the turbo on 93 but the same tuner made more.

I take WHP dyno numbers with a grain of salt since each dyno will give different numbers. I will have to talk with my tuner in CO when I get home before the tune and discuss it further with him.

I do understand the whole road course track day versus 1/4 drag strip track day on severity. The hardest driving on your engine is daily driving for the most part. I will say that road course track driving will tear down a car very quickly, though.

I would love to hit the 400HP mark but as long as driving it still puts a smile on my face then I am happy. My car brightens my day up no matter what my day has been like. whether I make 450WHP or just 375WHP I'm sure this setup will make me happy for a long time to come.

I am still shooting for a sub 8 min lap on the Nurburgring and I will start by practicing with the 22B on Forza and memorize the turns.
Topspeed said 90% of their tunes are on e85 according to the thread you posted (might be the ones they record). It burns real cold allowing you to run a lot leaner yielding more whp. That and when you test something you test it to the max, put it on edge so you know personally what you're testing can do, then you'll know when to back off.

Supporting mods is the reason why the guy hit 404 on 93. The average guy with average mods would probably make 340-360s maybe 370s depending on the tune.

I agree 100% with your dyno comment. No one should ever determine the performance of their car solely by dyno numbers IMHO. Drive the car then judge the performance.

Daily driving is hard on the engine, specially stop and go traffic, but not as hard as revving above 5000 rpm lap after lap. Thats why TA teams constantly tear down and inspect, possibly rebuild, their motors after each event.

The 22B is the best Subaru made IMO. You power to weight ratio with you car will do more than make you smile. Your next mod might be a BBK The important thing is that you're happy and confident in your car. In the end, its the driver, not the car that yields that sub 8 min lap time.

I tend to study this a lot
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:56 PM   #335
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one of my favorite drivers Tommi Makinen. I do like watching that lap 7:55 is a hell of a lap and in a STi Sedan that was stock if I remember right. I will have to put all my skills to use to get even close to the 7:55 he did.

I plan on a BBK even if it's just some stock Brembo brakes off an STi. I feel it's more the rotor and pads especially with the FHI 4/2 pot brakes. Brembos definitely will help with braking later though and give more bite. The added weight of BBKs don't help the cause either.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:29 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renegadeSTi View Post
one of my favorite drivers Tommi Makinen. I do like watching that lap 7:55 is a hell of a lap and in a STi Sedan that was stock if I remember right. I will have to put all my skills to use to get even close to the 7:55 he did.

I plan on a BBK even if it's just some stock Brembo brakes off an STi. I feel it's more the rotor and pads especially with the FHI 4/2 pot brakes. Brembos definitely will help with braking later though and give more bite. The added weight of BBKs don't help the cause either.
Yeah that STi was listed as a prototype in the record books b/c of the roll cage, adds chassis rigidity, brake rotors, racing seat and harness and front lip spoiler. Suspension and engine were stock. It was 2.0 JDM version, revs up 8k.

As far as the BBK, the benifit of stopping power with better brake feel out weighs the downside of added weight. Brembos will be a perfect upgrade for a GC8 but if track your car often your brembos might end up like these:



Stoptech ST-40 with 332mm rotors will clear 17" wheels
http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Stop...Slotted-Rotors
or
these
http://www.knsbrakes.com/carItemDeta...&item_id=37230

Here is the thread I got the burnt brembos from:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...035408&page=18
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:03 PM   #337
wrxfr3ak227
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Alpine White/Red

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmotron2030
Oh, here is my mod list to make 400whp:

Engine:
Short block:
Manley pistons 99.5
Manley rods
ACL race bearings
Nitrated STi OEM crank
ACL main bearings
Heads:
Kelford 272/272
Supertech dual valve springs and retainer kit
Supertech valve seals
Supertech iconnel exhaust valves
TGV deletes (OEM TGVs machined)
Aeromotive 340lph fuel pump
DW 850 (thinking about 1000cc injectors)
Perrin fuel rail kit
Crawford air/oil separator
APS 525 FMIC
APS 70mm cai
no name uppipe (can't remember the brand for some reason)
Dom3 xtr 10cm hotside
stromung divorced dp with ebay aps knock off cat back
ETS el header
Mishimoto radiator
Mishimoto 160 degree thermostat (purchased before I got orders to germany)
Mishimoto fan shroud
Gates Timing component kit
I think I might be forgetting some stuff.

For ****z and giggs
Supension:
Fortuneauto 500 track spec coils
Perrin ALK
Hotchkis endlinks
Cobb 25mm F/R sways
Whitline adjustable F/R lateral links
TIC trailing arms coming soon

Drive train:
Full 05 Sti drive train with 5x114 hubs
ACT street light clutch

Brakes:
Stoptech ST-40 BBK coming soon
rears will be oem brembos

Wheels:
17x8.5 Gramlights 57s
255/40/17 Dirrezas Starspecs
We are going to have some fun on the track together. That's if you can keep up!
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:08 PM   #338
wrxfr3ak227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renegadeSTi

I did not know the part where they rate the turbo on an engine Dyno. So how did Top Speed make more than the 404 WHP during their tests? It doesn't make sense that a guy with proper supporting mods maxed out the turbo on 93 but the same tuner made more.

I take WHP dyno numbers with a grain of salt since each dyno will give different numbers. I will have to talk with my tuner in CO when I get home before the tune and discuss it further with him.

I do understand the whole road course track day versus 1/4 drag strip track day on severity. The hardest driving on your engine is daily driving for the most part. I will say that road course track driving will tear down a car very quickly, though.

I would love to hit the 400HP mark but as long as driving it still puts a smile on my face then I am happy. My car brightens my day up no matter what my day has been like. whether I make 450WHP or just 375WHP I'm sure this setup will make me happy for a long time to come.

I am still shooting for a sub 8 min lap on the Nurburgring and I will start by practicing with the 22B on Forza and memorize the turns.
I feel you in the cars, sometimes I get giddy like a school girl walking away from mine. I use GT5 to memorize laps and it has worked out for me greatly. I thought that I had a low 8 but I am looking at maybe around 8:50 for a lap time. I had always thought the start point was different and never pushed myself in the beginning. This next trip I plan on pushing the limits and will return with video.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:17 PM   #339
wrxfr3ak227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmotron2030

Yeah that STi was listed as a prototype in the record books b/c of the roll cage, adds chassis rigidity, brake rotors, racing seat and harness and front lip spoiler. Suspension and engine were stock. It was 2.0 JDM version, revs up 8k.

As far as the BBK, the benifit of stopping power with better brake feel out weighs the downside of added weight. Brembos will be a perfect upgrade for a GC8 but if track your car often your brembos might end up like these:

Stoptech ST-40 with 332mm rotors will clear 17" wheels
http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Stop...Slotted-Rotors
or
these
http://www.knsbrakes.com/carItemDeta...&item_id=37230

Here is the thread I got the burnt brembos from:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...035408&page=18
I've done up to 7 laps in my car in one day following with another 6 to 7 the next day on weekend trips, this at times with consecutive laps.....brakes never faded. RBF600, DBA 4000, Ferrado 2500, and stainless steels. Last year I did the same fluid, hawk pads and everything else was stock. These Brembos will hold true to their color. Just upgrade the pad and rotor if that and you are loving life on the Ring. Anyone that wants to really push the track out here will need these brakes in order to go without fade in the last quarter. I have a friend that can prove for that, jumped on Brembos right after taking mine for a lap.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:05 PM   #340
gizmotron2030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxfr3ak227 View Post
I've done up to 7 laps in my car in one day following with another 6 to 7 the next day on weekend trips, this at times with consecutive laps.....brakes never faded. RBF600, DBA 4000, Ferrado 2500, and stainless steels. Last year I did the same fluid, hawk pads and everything else was stock. These Brembos will hold true to their color. Just upgrade the pad and rotor if that and you are loving life on the Ring. Anyone that wants to really push the track out here will need these brakes in order to go without fade in the last quarter. I have a friend that can prove for that, jumped on Brembos right after taking mine for a lap.
Not knocking the brembo performance. The pic of the burnt brembo is on a car that is stage 2 power wise 290whp/300wtq. He clearly demonstrated that the oem brembo caliper paint can't withstand the heat generated by hard braking lap after lap event after event. Those brembos he had lasted one season of road racing. He had no complaints about their performance. What you see in that pic is very common. It will happen to yours eventually if you track your car enough. However light track use won't hurt them, by light I mean 3-6 track days a year. I'm planing to go more than that. Thats why I choose Stoptech. There is some sort of preventive coating to put on them to stop them from burning, can't remember where to find it. And there's these:
http://www.knsbrakes.com/carSeriesDe...20.5mm%20Thick

A closer pic of that nasty brembo
[/quote]


Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxfr3ak227 View Post
We are going to have some fun on the track together. That's if you can keep up!
I need to learn the track first. Then we'll talk

Last edited by gizmotron2030; 06-12-2012 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:49 PM   #341
renegadeSTi
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I would repaint the Brembos any way. I prefer them black with maybe a red decal maybe no decals IDK yet. I need to get them first, The thing with any brakes is that daily driving and track driving will tear up the paint leaving the calipers vulnerable to the heat. As long as you maintain them and repaint them as often as needed before a season of hard track use I'm sure they will be fine.

Found some 17x8.5 Superleggera wheels for a decent price. After I get my GC wide bodied those wheels would fit rather nicely and look good. I need to find a set of 17x8 wheels for winters though.

Last edited by renegadeSTi; 06-12-2012 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:15 AM   #342
wrxfr3ak227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmotron2030 View Post
Not knocking the brembo performance. The pic of the burnt brembo is on a car that is stage 2 power wise 290whp/300wtq. He clearly demonstrated that the oem brembo caliper paint can't withstand the heat generated by hard braking lap after lap event after event. Those brembos he had lasted one season of road racing. He had no complaints about their performance. What you see in that pic is very common. It will happen to yours eventually if you track your car enough. However light track use won't hurt them, by light I mean 3-6 track days a year. I'm planing to go more than that. Thats why I choose Stoptech. There is some sort of preventive coating to put on them to stop them from burning, can't remember where to find it. And there's these:
http://www.knsbrakes.com/carSeriesDe...20.5mm%20Thick

A closer pic of that nasty brembo



I need to learn the track first. Then we'll talk [/quote]

I didn't think you were bashing Brembos, sorry if it came out that way. I just wanted guys to know they need them if they don't have them. As for learning the track, I simply just followed my friend the first few times then after that took lead and it all came together, we can do the same together. GT5 helped a lot but only with turn memorization. Ah, I have those shims as well but completely forgot about them. Not sure if they are doing much but I figured its helping in some fashion.
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:18 AM   #343
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Twin Scroll HTA gt3076r

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Damn, that 1.5xtr's power curve looks almost identical to my 21psi map. That's good stuff.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:00 PM   #344
rexwagon02
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Anyone interested in a dom 3.0r? I have one I'd like to get rid of.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:22 PM   #345
brranger
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What price u looking at
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:22 AM   #346
rexwagon02
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Hello,

The turbo is freshly rebuilt by blouch and will come with new exhaust gaskets. Its got a 3" inlet and the WG is welded shut, so EWG only. The hot side is freshly ceramic coated as well.

Unfortunately, my mechanic lost the oil and H20 connections, so I'm only lookin for 900.

I need to put some break in miles on my new motor, so I'm willing to travel to Ramstein AB to meet up (200 miles away from me), or it can ship free apo-apo as well.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:45 AM   #347
J.Graves
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Met today silver 2005 sti wondering about the ring events, when are they?
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Old 06-14-2012, 01:30 PM   #348
wrxfr3ak227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Graves
Met today silver 2005 sti wondering about the ring events, when are they?
Check out the other thread "Nurburgring trackday/meets. Welcome to the forum!
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:09 PM   #349
J.Graves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxfr3ak227 View Post
Check out the other thread "Nurburgring trackday/meets. Welcome to the forum!
now is there any rules on the ring specific safety precautions or anything? also what would be the best way to get my exhaust to germany you think i could mail it?

Last edited by J.Graves; 06-14-2012 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:24 PM   #350
wrxfr3ak227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Graves
now is there any rules on the ring specific safety precautions or anything? also what would be the best way to get my exhaust to germany you think i could mail it?
I don't see an issue mailing it. That's how mine was sent. The ring is considered a "toll road" doing the same driving laws apply but with no speed limit. Pass on left is the key rule never on the right. Insurances covers, at least usaa that I know of does.
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