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09-09-2012, 05:37 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
Why Is My Car Pulling Timing?
Question: What are the possible mechanical reason my car is pulling timing?
Car: 2002 WRX w/4EAT and 160,000 miles Background: I have had an OTS Stage II map on my car for the past 5 years. When I first flashed it, I did some logs and everything was fine. Recently I started logging it again just to check it and the car was pulling timing from about 4000 RPM. IAM is also reading very low. I changed to some thicker gaskets on the uppipe, thinking that I might have a boost leak. but it was still pulling timing. I also recently began having issues with my Factory Boost Controller, so I replaced it with the Grimspeed BCS and flashed a new OTS map that was specifically for the Grimspeed BCS. It's still pulling timing and IAM dropped from 15 when I started the car to 0 when I did my run. The car seems to be running pretty good though. I'm not hearing any pinging or ticking, it pulls hard and smooth. Here is a log I took today. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...HdESksySEZiQ1E
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09-09-2012, 05:38 PM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 152261
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: California
Vehicle:2007 WRX 2.5 Crystal Gray Metallic |
Check MAF
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09-09-2012, 05:40 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
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09-09-2012, 06:05 PM | #4 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 152261
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
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Vehicle:2007 WRX 2.5 Crystal Gray Metallic |
For me, the o-ring that seals it was cracked causing a leak @ high rpm. Check it for leaks. Borrow another fellow subie's MAf and test it on your car. See if problem goes away.
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09-09-2012, 06:11 PM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:02 WRX 05 LGT Slow Automatics |
Yikes! It looks to me to be a post MAF leak or boost leak. How does the inlet look where it connects to the turbo?
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09-09-2012, 06:49 PM | #6 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
Quote:
One other thing I forgot to mention was, awhile back I accidently stripped out one of the bolt holes that holds the BOV to the intercooler. I re-tapped the hole, but I had to go with a bigger bolt. The new bigger bolt wouldn't go through the gasket, so I just used liquid gasket. I checked for leaks, and there wasn't any. I haven't checked for leaks since then though. |
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09-09-2012, 06:51 PM | #7 |
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NWIC
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You will hear a boost leak from the bpv, sounds like you ran over a pack of squirrel
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09-09-2012, 06:58 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
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09-09-2012, 07:20 PM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
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SCIC
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Vehicle:2017 SWP BRZ PP, FXT 2002/2003 AW/PSM WRX |
Try replacing your crank position sensor.
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09-09-2012, 08:36 PM | #10 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Vehicle:02 WRX 05 LGT Slow Automatics |
Quote:
Look at the AFR's in the run. Although not perfectly accurate, they give you a rough estimate of what its running. Mid 12's. That is very lean. Also, airflow/load look low for 17ish psi. All this leads me to believe there is a failing MAF or a leak somewhere. |
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09-09-2012, 08:36 PM | #11 |
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are you running a stock intake system? anything other than a cobb short ram could cause issues
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09-09-2012, 09:20 PM | #12 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
OK, so I inspected and cleaned the MAF, took out the Crank Position Sensor, and reset the ECU. I took it for another spin and I have the log below.
I didn't see anything really on the MAF, it was a little dirty, but not that bad. I did notice a small crack on the thin frame that goes around the brown bulb part, but otherwise, the rubber o-ring was fine. The car would also stall as soon as I disconnect the MAF. I'll see if I can find someone who will let me borrow their MAF though. The CPS was very dirty, but no scratches or dents. I cleaned it up and put it back in. The car seemed to run a bit smoother afterward. Here is the log I took. I did notice that the car pull timing until after 6000 rpm, which is higher then normal. Usually it starts pulling 1000rpm sooner. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...kZBVEVlOUVfUUE |
09-09-2012, 09:22 PM | #13 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
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Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
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09-09-2012, 10:02 PM | #14 |
Scooby Newbie
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Make sure you reset the ecu too if you make a change/fix something/log
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09-10-2012, 05:32 AM | #15 |
Sammo Hung
Moderator Member#: 10613
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region:
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Location: N Fla / S Ga
Vehicle:2002 USDM WRX WRB |
please double check the green connector as well as flash connector.
to make sure you did not leave either on connected. if not, thats not good..pulling timing means there is knock.. |
09-10-2012, 01:30 PM | #16 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
Quote:
I'm also not hearing any pinging or knocking from the engine either? |
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09-10-2012, 03:33 PM | #17 |
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Vehicle:02 Silver Wagon "Stage 2" |
You are in San Antonio... It's hot. Are you sure it's not pulling timing due to IAT? Where were you when you data logged 5 years ago?
The ecu could be pulling timing due to knock. High IAT, or low octane fuel, can cause levels of knock that are imperceptible to the naked ear. It's normal operation for this to happen. |
09-10-2012, 04:23 PM | #18 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
Quote:
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09-10-2012, 04:35 PM | #19 |
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How old are the spark plugs?
I'd try lowering the timing by a couple of degrees and seeing if that clears it up. I've had many maps that look good at first, but after a period of time, issues will settle out that need to be dealt with. |
09-10-2012, 04:42 PM | #20 |
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Vehicle:02 Silver Wagon "Stage 2" |
Why is it a problem that it's pulling spark? This is a normal function. Does your car feel down on power? Is your check engine light on? ALL cars will pull spark at some point. That's why they have knock sensors, and why so much time is spent developing the algorithms to read the knock sensor signals.
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09-10-2012, 05:03 PM | #21 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:02 WRX 05 LGT Slow Automatics |
Quote:
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09-10-2012, 05:42 PM | #22 |
Scooby Newbie
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Vehicle:2007 WRX 2.5 Crystal Gray Metallic |
Any updates? reset the ecu and do the ecu learning trick.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302047 do a pull and let us know if it still pulls timing. |
09-10-2012, 09:24 PM | #23 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
- Spark plugs are only about 6 months old. They are 1 step colder iridiums.
- I don't have any CEL's - Since I went to the new map with the EBCS, the car feels sluggish, but on the old stage II map the car felt great! - I'll take the car out tonight with the cooler air and do a pull or two and post it up here |
09-10-2012, 09:30 PM | #24 |
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09-10-2012, 10:34 PM | #25 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 12263
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Charleston, SC
Vehicle:'02 WRX SRP 4EAT XPT Stg II |
Ok .. as requested, here is the new log with cooler (76 degrees) air. I also reset the ecu prior to the run and did the quick-learn trick.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...203YWlCNXJsYlE |
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