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10-04-2005, 01:13 PM | #1 |
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Schroth Rallye 4 + harness bar?
Does anyone have this setup? It's not clear to me how one would attach to the bar. I have dr/pass rallye 4 harnesses that I would like to start using for HPDEs (currently restricted from use due to rear seat mounting point / angle). I've been using them as-is for autocrosses to date.
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10-04-2005, 03:08 PM | #2 |
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well i got a harness bar and harnesses, you can see my setup here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2075362/1
hope that helps, the bar can be ordered at island motorsports and the harnesses are g-force's |
10-04-2005, 03:19 PM | #3 |
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AFAIK they are not meant to be used with a harness bar. I have one and it simply attatches to the front and rear seatbelt mount points.
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10-04-2005, 03:27 PM | #4 |
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best bet safetywise is to get belts that are designed to be used with a harness bar.
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10-04-2005, 03:49 PM | #5 |
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Dont cheap out when it comes to safety. with track speeds and possibile impacts, is your health worth the few bucks you save. just my 2 cents worth.
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10-04-2005, 03:53 PM | #6 |
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Guys, come on.
I'm not cheaping out on safety. I bought them for autocrossing. I did a track day and was unable to use them. I am curious if there is a way I can use them. If I cannot, oh well. I'm not buying new harnesses for 2 track days a year or so. I will continue to wear my seatbelt. If I can, and you know how, please let me know, and I will consider buying a harness bar. |
10-04-2005, 04:31 PM | #7 |
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DO NOT use a 4 point seatbelt on track attached to a harness bar.
DO NOT. DO NOT. -Tom PS. Please do NOT. |
10-04-2005, 04:42 PM | #8 |
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I have to assume your emphasis there is on the harness bar being used vs. a cage?
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10-04-2005, 04:53 PM | #9 |
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Do they have asm?
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10-04-2005, 05:00 PM | #10 |
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Yes, they do.
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10-04-2005, 05:26 PM | #11 |
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As far as the ASM that takes care of the 4 vs 5 point issue. That is why I said "DO NOT" so many times. A regular 4 point belt is WAY unsafe for track use, as the tragedy at Streets of Willow showed earlier this year.
I think the issue with 4/5 points (and I've never experienced this myself) on track w/o a cage/rollbar is the fact that you are stuck to the seat and can't move your head out of the way in a rollover. I have no direct experience with that, but its what I've always been told by experienced racers who I tend to believe. -Tom |
10-04-2005, 07:56 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
With that all said, i dont know if i will use my harness @ midohio... im still not sure what i will do, i may just use my stock belts... but at the streets of willow they didnt roll over thus its irrelevant to the harness without rollcage debate. i hope all i said there was correct, im not an expert at what happend @ streets of willow, but i dont think it was the harness+bar's fault, seemed like user error. Also, i would say maybe get a 5th point attached for more secure belt in... but from what i have heard a properly fitted 4pt harness is suffient. anyway, i thought i would just chime in. |
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10-04-2005, 11:50 PM | #13 |
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I just purchased the new quick fit Scroth setup after much reading up on the subject. A couple of things seemed to seperate the Schroth from other four point harnesses. Maybe the biggest ws ASM- a lot of R&D into that technology (the video they have w/ the crash dummies is pretty impressive).
Scroth utilizes stock mounting points, designed to be used w/ oe air bags (many are not)- they also are designed to to take advantage of the oe pre-tensioners. I also got from reading that the driver and passenger side are very specific (not interchangable)- this is because of the ASM which does allow one side of the body to twist- I would think there must be a little different material in one of the shoulder harnesses to allow this. This may alleviate concerns on roll overs as well- letting the body slightly dip???? I'm pretty sure I read that the Quick Fit was a option on one or more of the EDM M series- you'd think BMW would make sure the ducks were in a row before they allowed that (if they did ). |
10-05-2005, 12:32 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
-Tom |
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10-05-2005, 10:01 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
The "user error" started as soon as the cheap 4 point harness was put in the car. You pointing out that the harnesses stretched and the guy had taken the airbag wheel out is not making much of a point. A true racing harness installed correctly would have kept them in place and away from the steering wheel and floor boards. In my opinion, it's either the stock sliding 3 point seat belt or a full 3 inch 5 or 6 point harness installed in a car equipped with roll over protection on the track. You absolutely can not expect a piece of crap cheap rice harness to take the place of real safety equipment. I'm not sure where you heard that a 4 point harness is enough to protect you in a high speed incident but I'm guessing it was not from anyone that has any experience on the track or in racing. A 4 point harness is terrible because the top and bottom points work against each other. You can tighten the lap belt as much as you want but then you also need to tighten the shoulder belts...only when you do they pull up on the lap belt right in the middle . When you feel that tightening the shoulder belts has lifted your lap belt up a little you tighten that down some more and everything seems great. Then, god forbid, you hit something in front of you at speed, as inertia pulls your body forward against the shoulder belts at 3 or 4 Gs, they pull up on the lap belt and all the energy pulls your body underneath the lap belt and you find yourself in a pile on the floor boards. If the safety tech at whatever event you're running is motivated enough, they will look for SFI or FIA rating and dates on all harness and not allow any that are not rated or out of date. They should also look for a sub belt on all harnesses. If you have not seen first hand what a car accident will do to the human body, find some pics on the internet and see. Rotten dot com is a good place to start. Then, after looking at that stuff, ask yourself if you want to skimp out on safety. |
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10-05-2005, 10:14 PM | #16 |
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To add clarification to this thread, could someone explain what an "acceptable" combination of harness and roll protection would be?
I would like to actually make my car safer for the track as well as the street. When I see unbelievable motorsports crashes that drivers walk out of I know they aren’t relying on the stock 3 point. But then I read sad stories about petty traffic altercations causing death because someone’s head hit their cage. Can one have their cake and eat it too? |
10-05-2005, 10:16 PM | #17 |
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You can have roll protection that is so far out of the way that your head couldn't hit it. A 4 point roll bar like that with a 5 point harness would be the best of both worlds. Of course you wouldn't have a usable back seat, but who needs that?
-Tom |
10-06-2005, 01:37 PM | #18 |
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just to throw my $.02 cents in..
5 point harness = crushed genitals spend the extra little bit of money and get a 6 point.. |
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