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09-01-2012, 06:00 PM | #126 |
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09-01-2012, 06:31 PM | #127 |
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I'm so glad you noticed your mistake finally.
"It's unfortunate even with the "4WD" system they use on the Highlander hybrid and gasoline Hybrid/RAV4, I'd still buy a Subaru over this FWD hybrid CUV just because Subaru has AWD that actually works as intended and advertised." If that doesn't say "If you want an AWD EV, this isn't it" obviously you might need to check into the local community college for English 101. Then again, you and the weeaboo make a good can of laughs. Did you run out of witty comments? I'm glad you finally came around to noticing it after someone had to explain it slowly to you. |
09-01-2012, 07:01 PM | #128 |
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You might need to hit up some classes on technical writing to get your point across in a somewhat coherent and accurate manner. If you think that your first statement was coherent or accurate in any way, you truly are delusional. Here, I'll rewrite it for you. "It's unfortunate even with the "4WD" system they use on the Highlander hybrid and FWD biased 4WD system used on the gasoline Highlander and RAV4, I'd still buy a Subaru over these higher efficiency CUVs just because Subaru has AWD that actually works as intended and advertised." Last edited by quentinberg007; 09-01-2012 at 07:07 PM. |
09-04-2012, 09:51 AM | #129 | |
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09-04-2012, 12:09 PM | #130 | |
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Perhaps I'll be able to hold my horses after all. The whole dynamic of pent up orders, waiting lists, and lead time/whether dealers will actually stock any is another matter, though. |
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09-13-2012, 07:49 PM | #131 |
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Yet more RAV4 EV details emerge: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars...quivalent.html - September 24 California on-sale date! Finally a real date instead of a handwavy "soon"! - 76 MPGe with a 103 mile EPA 5-cycle (2008 test) official range. The Leaf is 106 MPGe and 73 miles, in comparison. - Legal in California HOV lanes for solo drivers (as are the Leaf, iMiEV, and Volt, iirc) - 1.9% loan rates for qualified buyers! presumably through Toyota Financial. I sure hope I'm a qualified buyer... |
10-04-2012, 11:30 PM | #132 | ||
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It must be a new month, since I'm once again revising my vehicular plans… and the RAV4 EV is out of the running in all likelihood.
Both I and especially my wife had been very amped (cue rimshot) about the Toyota RAV4 EV: Good size and weight for carting a young family about town what with Thing #1 due at the end of February with associated giant rear-facing car seats and all, good range, good performance, good company with local presence everywhere… right? Since California is the exclusive roll-out area I'd planned on shipping one north to Seattle, having been assured by a Toyota rep back in June that all those ubiquitous, national Toyota dealers would be able to service the thing. Well, that turns out to be decidedly not the case, and I think that might just kill it in terms of its appeal to us. How did I confirm this? A conscientious dealer gave me a copy of the mandatory pre-sales completion RAV4 EV Customer Disclosure Form. What does this disclosure form say, and why are my RAV4 EV plans now all phrased in the past tense? Here are the damning things, in my opinion, emphasis added by me: Quote:
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10-04-2012, 11:33 PM | #133 |
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well that stinks. a friend just drove the fit ev and is in love with it.
maybe fall in love with the honda again? |
10-04-2012, 11:38 PM | #134 |
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Even the Fit EV isn't available in Seattle. Portland, yes. Seattle, no. That would be much less of a potential headache should anything go south, since I could, er, go south with it.
No, seriously: I could drive a Fit EV from Seattle to Portland for service by charging probably twice along the way. No way would it be feasible for anyone with a job to do the same in a RAV4 EV from Seattle to, say, Sacramento. |
10-04-2012, 11:46 PM | #135 |
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I am remaining hopeful that the 2014 outlander PHEV comes in at a reasonable price. 50K for an EV is just crazy.
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10-05-2012, 06:36 AM | #136 |
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The 50k price is pretty reasonable. I am hopeful the Outlander is similar and has a great drivetrain. They can make them cheap and suck, but I don't really get excited by that option.
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10-05-2012, 08:00 AM | #137 |
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Until EV get down to about 25k they are not going to amount to a spec on the wall. 50k while reasonable from a 'well it costs this much to produce' point of view, it is absurd from a what you get for your money point of view. And while most green weenies want to be seen as 'doing their part', the fact is that people's good intentions do not always line up with their wallets capabilities.
When EV make economic sense for an individual they will start selling in far more numbers...Until then, they will sell about as many as cars as their are people who want image over substance. So after the Hollywood types get done 'making a statement', the sales will probably dry up or at least severely slow down. |
10-05-2012, 12:23 PM | #138 |
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Which is why they are making them in limited numbers.
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10-05-2012, 12:42 PM | #139 |
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Yep Indocti. And theoretically these limited runs will provide learning opportunities that will make them cheaper and better.
Lessons: Nissan learned that you need better thermal management or better batteries in Arizona GM learned that you need to take into account people not following procedures and discharging battery after an accident. (Cross brace etc...) A123 learned that you better get the dadgum hose clamps on correctly. I am sure there are a lot of other lessons learned as well. BTW Scrappy I don't disagree, but I would much prefer they make great vehicles than cheap ones. If they make cheap ones even though they may at first sell more they will damage the reputation of electrified vehicles when consumers complain that they are either wearing out too fast, not saving as much gas as they thought etc... If it costs 50k to make a great vehicle then just sell fewer till it costs less. EVs could be cheaper than PHEVs too. I thought before Mitsubishi was going to make a PHEV SUV. If it is just an EV they could sacrifice range for cost pretty easy. They can do like Tesla and sell a variety of ranges at different price points. |
10-05-2012, 01:21 PM | #140 | |
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10-05-2012, 01:29 PM | #141 | |
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Plus if you are saving only ~$200/month, it takes you many years of fuel savings to cover the added cost of the EV. |
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10-05-2012, 01:34 PM | #142 |
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Smart ForTwo ED: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012...art-fortwo-ed/
$18,250 after the Federal tax credit, and potentially less than that depending on state level incentives (e.g., no ~10% sales tax in WA, $2,500 credit in CA). Sure, it's still a small tin can, but it's undeniably a cheap electrically driven one... |
10-05-2012, 01:36 PM | #143 | |
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10-05-2012, 02:01 PM | #144 |
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That's why I said everyone should consider their individual situation. It doesn't make sense as a single car for someone who takes long trips by car, but many families have 2 vehicles.
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10-05-2012, 09:01 PM | #145 |
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The pay back all depends on on how much you pay for electricity. While 200 bucks a month on gas is reasonable estimate, it would stand to reason a chuck of that would be negated by the electricity it took to charge it, the price of an additional vehicle if you need to go somewhere outside of your range, AND lets not forget the battery performance will probably deteriorate over 5 years to some degree.
For a very narrow sliver of people these things can make close to economic sense, and that number shrinks even more if the government would stop subsidizing them. Look if you want one buy one. But I think it is safe to say the VAST majority of the population, these things are just vehicular oddities. Just like a McLaren. It takes a very special person to want one. THe facts are that there are not that many people standing in line for an expensive car with limited range. You can paint a picture where they make sense to somebody, but those kinds of people are few and far between. We will see how the E-RAV 4 does. Who knows, I may be entirely wrong and off base. But I doubt it. |
10-06-2012, 02:28 AM | #146 |
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Which is why the total number of Evs produced annually for the us market are going to be in the 50-70k range.
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10-06-2012, 10:07 PM | #147 |
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considering its based on the rav4 thats been around forever, it actually looks pretty cool. almost better than a lot of newer hybrid version cars.
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10-06-2012, 10:46 PM | #148 | |
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I do think there are a decent number who like the idea and are willing to shell out the premium. |
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10-07-2012, 06:04 AM | #149 | |
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The authorized repair facility is Tesla in California, let see if I can find it. |
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10-07-2012, 06:04 AM | #150 | |
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oyota RAV4 EV demonstrates the potential for an electric SUV
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