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08-19-2003, 10:31 PM | #26 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 33246
Join Date: Feb 2003
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NESIC
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I'm not "promoting alarmism".
Untill Mr. Subaru, is that you?, announces otherwise I'm going by what was stated. But in the end it does not matter as my car has been procured and I really don't care either way. Some of us are more willing to gamble that there will be a near inifinite amount of STi's with one for every willing buyer, while others of us (Neil & I) take/took a more conservative approach and moved more quickly to secure a seat. Don't hate folks for having a difference of opinion from your own hopes & desires. Especially considering niether you nor I know for sure and at best can only make a semi-educated guess toward what will happen. As I've said before, time will tell the tale. Best of luck with your own procurement. - Janq --- Quote:
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08-19-2003, 10:37 PM | #27 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:'04 Ex STi Owner '97 4Runner |
Quote:
Kevin |
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08-19-2003, 10:46 PM | #28 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 938
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: O' Fallon, Missouri, US
Vehicle:2004 Former STi now Dakota 4x4 |
Quote:
What's your source on this? There are many factors that go into the number of vehicles produced other than how many they can sell. Only time will tell. I see you are not gambling and waiting to buy in November. I'm happy getting mine in September. - Neil |
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08-19-2003, 10:54 PM | #29 |
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Member#: 41825
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Athens, GA
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We got my lil brother's STi from Subaru Of Gwinnett in Atlanta, Ga. According to them they are the only stand alone Subaru dealership in GA and the highest volume dealer in the Southeast(80-100+ car a month), they've sold 5 STis since we started looking at them on the 5th. When we picked ours up they still had a Silver one on the lot, granted that was yesterday so it may be gone. They said they were planning to get another 2 or 3 in but thats it so you may want to check them if you are looking for an STi. Anyway, they said that federal law mandates how many turbo-charged cars they can import every year. This law was modified early this year tightening restrictions. Because of this they are importing less turbo foresters and STis than they had planned. Thus the reason for the STi shortage according to them, so take it with a glass of salt.
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08-19-2003, 10:59 PM | #30 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 37581
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Correct Fitment Crew #38
Vehicle:2004 SZ55'd STi 375whp on 91/404whp on 95 |
I don't think that a lot of people were necessarily "gambling" by assuming an unlimited amount of STi's produced and placing their reservations on one intentionally late. I don't think it's an issue of "moving quickly" enough to secure a spot either. I think that timing in placing deposits down were/are more a matter of gathering guaranteed funds together in order to purchase the car itself, or at least put a decent down payment on it..that certainly isn't gambling, that's just common sense. Sure, you can simply put your name on a list by placing a $500 deposit down("securing a seat") with $1000 sitting in your bank account to your name but what good is going to do someone who can't put a decent down payment down when the car arrives months after? Everyone wants their STi ASAP, who wouldn't. No one in their right minds would hold off on placing a deposit down just for the sake of waiting, it's probably because they wouldn't want to gamble and have funds fall short via a premature car delivery. But I guess I'll just speak for myself on this one....and I do agree, Janq & Neil, only time will tell..
-STiLL |
08-19-2003, 11:14 PM | #31 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10972
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Tampabay, Florida
Vehicle:2004 STi (fuxor3d!!) 2004 Forester X |
Quote:
Do you realize how many imported turbo cars there are? |
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08-19-2003, 11:24 PM | #32 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:'04 Ex STi Owner '97 4Runner |
Quote:
Kevin |
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08-19-2003, 11:26 PM | #33 |
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Member#: 41825
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Athens, GA
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They told us that after we had the car. I didn't believe them either but my dad sure did. Hook, line, and sinker.
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08-19-2003, 11:33 PM | #34 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:'04 Ex STi Owner '97 4Runner |
Quote:
SOA has never, ever said the USDM STi was a limited production car. They had production levels they gave out, but those are subject to change. Another tidbit: Between the June, July and August alocations, Subaru of New England has received only about 300 or so STi's. I'm sure New England is one of strongest markets for subaru, and that we are getting more than 10% of the cars. You do the math - there will be plenty coming in the fall, or at least enough to meet demand. Kevin |
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08-19-2003, 11:40 PM | #35 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region:
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Quote:
Many/most folks are'nt gambling and are just stuck with bad lots of timing (low supply vs. big demand) or cash flow (and they say the economy is recovering...where?!). But then there are a large minority of folks who for what ever reason are in fact gambling. That is based on the _many_ conversations I've had with dealers all along the east coast as I was searching for an STi at a rate lower than MSRP. I can't tell you how many times the sales or finance mgr. would state to me that they had XXX many folks on their list but when deliveries came in and they called around nearly no one was ready to move. And not every STi owner has a WRX (or fill in the blank car) to sell/trade before being able to close their deal. The four dealers I settled on (always have a backup plan!) were located in VA, Boston, Northampton, and NY. All four said the same thing. Big line of names and/or deposits, no buyers. Folks want to wait until the winter, wait for a white car, want to trade/sell their WRX for 90% of what they paid for it (good luck!), all kinds of stuff. My dealers were amazed and skeptical that I did not want to wait and was not dependant on a trade in, not that thats a bad thing mind you. Then after I took delivery of my car I tried to help out my fellow Subie fan and _giveaway_ my pre-negotiated & sealed deals all below MSRP. I directly contacted over 15 peopl on this board alone who all stated publicly they wanted an STi ASAP. But guess what happened when it came to game time? Vapor Lock. I got all kinds of reasons but the bottom line was no movers & no shakers. My point is I think a lot of folks have or are sleeping themselves out of a car. Hence the 'gamble'. It didn't help either that dealers were and still are charging markups (sucker fee!) further putting the car out of the range of affordability for many folks. Now we have dealers with units sitting on lots gathering dust yet on this board alone there seems to be three times as many buyers available for the supposedly diminished supply. One would think these cars would be snapped up if folks really were serious and/or not betting that more will come. Honestly I hope Subie does make more and I hope the rumored EVO 9 does come out with better cooler stuff. Doing so would help everyone (current owners too) as I'm sick of SUV's and would love to see more of these poor man's supercars come down the pike. - Janq |
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08-19-2003, 11:44 PM | #36 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 16791
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:2004 WRX STi WRBlue |
Flagship?
One must wonder if the STi is a flagship car that Subaru sells at a slim profit (not dealer profit). With all the added items, I wonder if it is as profitable as a WRX or Forester? They may want to limit supplies to keep demand high (dealers would love that)... The truth is unknown...
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08-20-2003, 12:02 AM | #37 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 37581
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Correct Fitment Crew #38
Vehicle:2004 SZ55'd STi 375whp on 91/404whp on 95 |
As a sidenote one of the local Mitsu dealers around here are clueless as to why they haven't been able to move the $40,150 evo for two months As a another competing local Mistu dealer has been able to move 3 of them with 2k mark ups....go figure. I know dealers have to make their money somehow but its not like they're GIVING AWAY an STi by selling it at MSRP. It's only expected that Subaru keeps the demand high on the STi as the infrequent availability of this car seeminly propagates an unsurpassable feeling of exclusivity...unfortunately another reason for dealers to tack on the mark up.
-STiLL |
08-20-2003, 12:06 AM | #38 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 41945
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: New Orleans, LA
Vehicle:2004 WRX Sport Wagon WRB |
Don't mind me...just got a couple questions here:
1) If, as some are saying, as 2003 draws to a close it's going to be harder and harder to procure an STi, what will happen when the new year rolls around? Will 2004MY STis be readily available again? 2) When will the 2005MY debut / be on lots ready for purchase? Has anyone seen any numbers, or are we all just assuming that it will be the same time in 2004 that the 2004MY STi was on lots in 2003? |
08-20-2003, 09:23 AM | #39 | |
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Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:2005 2012 Jeep 2013 DGM BRZ |
Re: Flagship?
Quote:
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08-20-2003, 11:10 AM | #40 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 20405
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Queens, New York
Vehicle:2000 OBS WRX Swap Green |
Some of the ranting in here contributes to dealer markups and exaggeration of the car's value or availability.
In the NY, Tri-State area. I can walk into 3/5 Subaru place and buy STI out of the lot at MSRP as long as I talk them a bit. They will at 1st detect if you have that "desperation" and if you do, they will try to rob you with the markups. I walked in sounded like I am not impressed and they are willing to give me good value on my WRX trade in for STI at MSRP. The fact is: STI is not limited, Subaru makes them and ships them from Japan, they just need to get good allocation numbers before the factory assembles them. Since they make all the STI models from JDM, EDM, USDM, it's quite easy to change over the parts and have any model ready for delivery easily. The 3-5k limit is just a way for the car to sound exclusive. If someone has the money, a seller will supply it. Supply & demand, simple... |
08-20-2003, 11:34 AM | #41 |
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region:
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Location: Cincinnati
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They guy who made the comment about limited turbo cars being introduced here...I'm pretty sure he was probably talking about CAFE standards. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow they do come into play. I know emissions are low on these things, but there's lots of intricacies to CAFE that I don't fully understand, and I believe it's possible that it does play into limiting the number of STI's they can import(although that number is certainly higher than the 3600 number we've seen quoted).
I think there will probably be a limit just from a marketing perspective. But that's all moot. That a dealership said they would not be receiving any more this year is possible. Doesn't mean the MY04's are done. It just means that they are tapering off the delivery now. Initially, they almost had a stockpile to drop on the U.S. to make sure they were all over the country. You wanted that effect so people could see them and go buy them, hopefully locally. Now, they are only shipping them over as they are produced, and spreading them around the country based on sales records of various dealerships. This means that some high-volume dealers might still see a few more this year, and others might not. Also, some that say "we won't receive anymore this year", might actually end up with one. Maybe it's just uncertain when the next one will arrive...possibly December, but maybe not until January. There's lots of explanations for these things. And frankly, none of us really knows. Subaru could have a marketing strategy to limit the number of STI's to a specific count, well below what they are capable of manufacturing. Perhaps in line with the introduction of various high-performance vehicles showing up this year(Forrester and Baja turbos). The Legacy turbo is coming. I'm sure they have a large plan on how they want to present their image to pave the way for future models. We just don't know what they plan on doing, and they aren't making it public either. |
08-20-2003, 04:20 PM | #42 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 39661
Join Date: Jul 2003
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:2017 BRZ WRB |
Re: Re: Flagship?
Quote:
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08-20-2003, 04:58 PM | #43 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 37205
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:2004 STI WRB |
What I DO know-
The profit that car manufacturers make on high performance "halo" vehicles is the lowest of any vehicle market. The profit on pickups and SUVs is the highest (thus their neverending quest to sell more behemouths). "Halo" vehicles are more effective at bringing customers into dealerships if they are more desirable. Performance cars are more desirable if they are built in fewer numbers. (Like the Supra TT) Subaru wants to sell Outbacks, Foresters, Imprezas, and WRXs, where the main Subaru plant is making the most money at the lowest per car cost. Dealership employees are full of *****. The rumor of only 3600 or 4600 STis coming to the US has been propagated since the release of the car specifications. Only Mitsubishi personnel have been quoted saying that they will produce as many as can be sold. If that means that they are producing more or stopping, I don't know. I don't care either, since I am running home to finish installing my radio. |
08-21-2003, 06:31 PM | #44 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10972
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Tampabay, Florida
Vehicle:2004 STi (fuxor3d!!) 2004 Forester X |
White/Silver available at Van Bortel for $400 over invoice:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postid=4465661 While calling I asked about ordering a white/gold(I'm already on the waiting list for this car from Van Bortel) and I was told that at this point it wouldn't take too long and I could expect to take deliverly between October and November which is basicly the same thing my sales person has been telling me the whole time. My local dealership in Florida also also posted on SE Forums that a Blue(I think) is up for grabs from them. Every dealership I've contacted has denied the rumor that availablity is tapering off this year. |
08-21-2003, 11:34 PM | #45 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 16791
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Vehicle:2004 WRX STi WRBlue |
Re: Re: Flagship?
Quote:
Chevy? Corvette. Dodge? Viper. BMW? M Series. Nissan? 300ZX TT (350Z maybe) Etc, etc... Flagship is NOT the most sales. NOT the bread and butter cars or minivans! Like someone else said, the flagship gets you into the showroom to buy something else... Unless your insane like some of us that bought STis instead of Impreza RS... Or all the 2003s they are giving away plus low interest. |
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08-21-2003, 11:36 PM | #46 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 938
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: O' Fallon, Missouri, US
Vehicle:2004 Former STi now Dakota 4x4 |
I'd jump on it if I lived a heck of a lot closer to NY....
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