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Old 08-19-2003, 10:31 PM   #26
Janq
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I'm not "promoting alarmism".

Untill Mr. Subaru, is that you?, announces otherwise I'm going by what was stated. But in the end it does not matter as my car has been procured and I really don't care either way.

Some of us are more willing to gamble that there will be a near inifinite amount of STi's with one for every willing buyer, while others of us (Neil & I) take/took a more conservative approach and moved more quickly to secure a seat.

Don't hate folks for having a difference of opinion from your own hopes & desires. Especially considering niether you nor I know for sure and at best can only make a semi-educated guess toward what will happen. As I've said before, time will tell the tale.

Best of luck with your own procurement.

- Janq

---

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket


No, you're the only one making any sense.

Janq and Neil, please don't promote alarmisim over sti supply on this board. If you can't get an STi in your area, suck it up and travel, just don't whine about it. The sti is not a limited production car, PERIOD. They will build as many as they can sell.

Neil, my comment about MSRP was that I thought the dealership was concerned that you would ask for UNDER msrp, and thus they would want to get you worried you wouldn't get one otherwise.

I just put down a deposit for a blue/gold w/no options that I found right in my area. I'm talking my WRX in for trade apraisial on Friday. On my request said they could give me private party sale value for my trade if I'm buying at MSRP - they even said they thought it would be a fair deal. (we'll see if they come through) I would guess they have already sold sti's at under MSRP, or were expecting to do it in this alocation. Maybe they are a little antsy with 4 cars sitting on the lot unspoken for?

Kevin
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Old 08-19-2003, 10:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Janq
I'm not "promoting alarmism".

Untill Mr. Subaru, is that you?, announces otherwise I'm going by what was stated. But in the end it does not matter as my car has been procured and I really don't care either way.

Some of us are more willing to gamble that there will be a near inifinite amount of STi's with one for every willing buyer, while others of us (Neil & I) take/took a more conservative approach and moved more quickly to secure a seat.

Don't hate folks for having a difference of opinion from your own hopes & desires. Especially considering niether you nor I know for sure and at best can only make a semi-educated guess toward what will happen. As I've said before, time will tell the tale.

Best of luck with your own procurement.

- Janq

---



Kevin
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Old 08-19-2003, 10:46 PM   #28
Neil Wallerstein
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket
The sti is not a limited production car, PERIOD. They will build as many as they can sell.
Kevin,

What's your source on this? There are many factors that go into the number of vehicles produced other than how many they can sell. Only time will tell. I see you are not gambling and waiting to buy in November. I'm happy getting mine in September.

- Neil
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Old 08-19-2003, 10:54 PM   #29
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We got my lil brother's STi from Subaru Of Gwinnett in Atlanta, Ga. According to them they are the only stand alone Subaru dealership in GA and the highest volume dealer in the Southeast(80-100+ car a month), they've sold 5 STis since we started looking at them on the 5th. When we picked ours up they still had a Silver one on the lot, granted that was yesterday so it may be gone. They said they were planning to get another 2 or 3 in but thats it so you may want to check them if you are looking for an STi. Anyway, they said that federal law mandates how many turbo-charged cars they can import every year. This law was modified early this year tightening restrictions. Because of this they are importing less turbo foresters and STis than they had planned. Thus the reason for the STi shortage according to them, so take it with a glass of salt.
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Old 08-19-2003, 10:59 PM   #30
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I don't think that a lot of people were necessarily "gambling" by assuming an unlimited amount of STi's produced and placing their reservations on one intentionally late. I don't think it's an issue of "moving quickly" enough to secure a spot either. I think that timing in placing deposits down were/are more a matter of gathering guaranteed funds together in order to purchase the car itself, or at least put a decent down payment on it..that certainly isn't gambling, that's just common sense. Sure, you can simply put your name on a list by placing a $500 deposit down("securing a seat") with $1000 sitting in your bank account to your name but what good is going to do someone who can't put a decent down payment down when the car arrives months after? Everyone wants their STi ASAP, who wouldn't. No one in their right minds would hold off on placing a deposit down just for the sake of waiting, it's probably because they wouldn't want to gamble and have funds fall short via a premature car delivery. But I guess I'll just speak for myself on this one....and I do agree, Janq & Neil, only time will tell..

-STiLL
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Old 08-19-2003, 11:14 PM   #31
lstepnio
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Quote:
federal law mandates how many turbo-charged cars they can import every year. This law was modified early this year tightening restrictions. Because of this they are importing less turbo foresters and STis than they had planned.
This thread is just getting better and better.
Do you realize how many imported turbo cars there are?
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Old 08-19-2003, 11:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by SithSolo1
Anyway, they said that federal law mandates how many turbo-charged cars they can import every year. This law was modified early this year tightening restrictions. Because of this they are importing less turbo foresters and STis than they had planned. Thus the reason for the STi shortage according to them, so take it with a glass of salt.
Dealerships will tell you anything to get you to pay more, and buy sooner.

Kevin
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Old 08-19-2003, 11:26 PM   #33
SithSolo1
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They told us that after we had the car. I didn't believe them either but my dad sure did. Hook, line, and sinker.
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Old 08-19-2003, 11:33 PM   #34
Red Rocket
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neil Wallerstein


Kevin,

What's your source on this? There are many factors that go into the number of vehicles produced other than how many they can sell. Only time will tell. I see you are not gambling and waiting to buy in November. I'm happy getting mine in September.

- Neil
I'm not NOT gambling, I was planning to buy at this time since a couple months back - when I could just "walk in", and get a decent deal. I'm ready now, so why wait?

SOA has never, ever said the USDM STi was a limited production car. They had production levels they gave out, but those are subject to change.

Another tidbit: Between the June, July and August alocations, Subaru of New England has received only about 300 or so STi's. I'm sure New England is one of strongest markets for subaru, and that we are getting more than 10% of the cars. You do the math - there will be plenty coming in the fall, or at least enough to meet demand.

Kevin
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Old 08-19-2003, 11:40 PM   #35
Janq
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Quote:
Originally posted by STiLL WILL
I don't think that a lot of people were necessarily "gambling"...
To be fair, you are right on that one STiLL.
Many/most folks are'nt gambling and are just stuck with bad lots of timing (low supply vs. big demand) or cash flow (and they say the economy is recovering...where?!).

But then there are a large minority of folks who for what ever reason are in fact gambling. That is based on the _many_ conversations I've had with dealers all along the east coast as I was searching for an STi at a rate lower than MSRP. I can't tell you how many times the sales or finance mgr. would state to me that they had XXX many folks on their list but when deliveries came in and they called around nearly no one was ready to move. And not every STi owner has a WRX (or fill in the blank car) to sell/trade before being able to close their deal. The four dealers I settled on (always have a backup plan!) were located in VA, Boston, Northampton, and NY. All four said the same thing.
Big line of names and/or deposits, no buyers.

Folks want to wait until the winter, wait for a white car, want to trade/sell their WRX for 90% of what they paid for it (good luck!), all kinds of stuff. My dealers were amazed and skeptical that I did not want to wait and was not dependant on a trade in, not that thats a bad thing mind you.
Then after I took delivery of my car I tried to help out my fellow Subie fan and _giveaway_ my pre-negotiated & sealed deals all below MSRP. I directly contacted over 15 peopl on this board alone who all stated publicly they wanted an STi ASAP. But guess what happened when it came to game time? Vapor Lock. I got all kinds of reasons but the bottom line was no movers & no shakers. My point is I think a lot of folks have or are sleeping themselves out of a car. Hence the 'gamble'.

It didn't help either that dealers were and still are charging markups (sucker fee!) further putting the car out of the range of affordability for many folks.
Now we have dealers with units sitting on lots gathering dust yet on this board alone there seems to be three times as many buyers available for the supposedly diminished supply. One would think these cars would be snapped up if folks really were serious and/or not betting that more will come.

Honestly I hope Subie does make more and I hope the rumored EVO 9 does come out with better cooler stuff. Doing so would help everyone (current owners too) as I'm sick of SUV's and would love to see more of these poor man's supercars come down the pike.

- Janq
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Old 08-19-2003, 11:44 PM   #36
peczenij
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Default Flagship?

One must wonder if the STi is a flagship car that Subaru sells at a slim profit (not dealer profit). With all the added items, I wonder if it is as profitable as a WRX or Forester? They may want to limit supplies to keep demand high (dealers would love that)... The truth is unknown...
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Old 08-20-2003, 12:02 AM   #37
STiLL WILL
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As a sidenote one of the local Mitsu dealers around here are clueless as to why they haven't been able to move the $40,150 evo for two months As a another competing local Mistu dealer has been able to move 3 of them with 2k mark ups....go figure. I know dealers have to make their money somehow but its not like they're GIVING AWAY an STi by selling it at MSRP. It's only expected that Subaru keeps the demand high on the STi as the infrequent availability of this car seeminly propagates an unsurpassable feeling of exclusivity...unfortunately another reason for dealers to tack on the mark up.

-STiLL
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Old 08-20-2003, 12:06 AM   #38
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Don't mind me...just got a couple questions here:

1) If, as some are saying, as 2003 draws to a close it's going to be harder and harder to procure an STi, what will happen when the new year rolls around? Will 2004MY STis be readily available again?

2) When will the 2005MY debut / be on lots ready for purchase? Has anyone seen any numbers, or are we all just assuming that it will be the same time in 2004 that the 2004MY STi was on lots in 2003?
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Old 08-20-2003, 09:23 AM   #39
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Default Re: Flagship?

Quote:
Originally posted by peczenij
One must wonder if the STi is a flagship car that Subaru sells at a slim profit (not dealer profit). With all the added items, I wonder if it is as profitable as a WRX or Forester? They may want to limit supplies to keep demand high (dealers would love that)... The truth is unknown...
It's not a flagship car by any means. They definitely make a profit on every one of them. Even with all the extra parts it doesn't cost $32k to make by any means. I bet they make more profit on a STI than they do a WRX or Forester. Subaru is too small of a company to throw away money making specialty vehicles. Subarus flagship cars are the Outback wagon and the Forester, those are what they sell the most of by far.
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Old 08-20-2003, 11:10 AM   #40
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Some of the ranting in here contributes to dealer markups and exaggeration of the car's value or availability.

In the NY, Tri-State area. I can walk into 3/5 Subaru place and buy STI out of the lot at MSRP as long as I talk them a bit.

They will at 1st detect if you have that "desperation" and if you do, they will try to rob you with the markups.

I walked in sounded like I am not impressed and they are willing to give me good value on my WRX trade in for STI at MSRP.


The fact is: STI is not limited, Subaru makes them and ships them from Japan, they just need to get good allocation numbers before the factory assembles them. Since they make all the STI models from JDM, EDM, USDM, it's quite easy to change over the parts and have any model ready for delivery easily.

The 3-5k limit is just a way for the car to sound exclusive. If someone has the money, a seller will supply it.

Supply & demand, simple...
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Old 08-20-2003, 11:34 AM   #41
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They guy who made the comment about limited turbo cars being introduced here...I'm pretty sure he was probably talking about CAFE standards. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow they do come into play. I know emissions are low on these things, but there's lots of intricacies to CAFE that I don't fully understand, and I believe it's possible that it does play into limiting the number of STI's they can import(although that number is certainly higher than the 3600 number we've seen quoted).

I think there will probably be a limit just from a marketing perspective. But that's all moot. That a dealership said they would not be receiving any more this year is possible. Doesn't mean the MY04's are done. It just means that they are tapering off the delivery now. Initially, they almost had a stockpile to drop on the U.S. to make sure they were all over the country. You wanted that effect so people could see them and go buy them, hopefully locally. Now, they are only shipping them over as they are produced, and spreading them around the country based on sales records of various dealerships. This means that some high-volume dealers might still see a few more this year, and others might not. Also, some that say "we won't receive anymore this year", might actually end up with one. Maybe it's just uncertain when the next one will arrive...possibly December, but maybe not until January.

There's lots of explanations for these things. And frankly, none of us really knows. Subaru could have a marketing strategy to limit the number of STI's to a specific count, well below what they are capable of manufacturing. Perhaps in line with the introduction of various high-performance vehicles showing up this year(Forrester and Baja turbos). The Legacy turbo is coming. I'm sure they have a large plan on how they want to present their image to pave the way for future models. We just don't know what they plan on doing, and they aren't making it public either.
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Old 08-20-2003, 04:20 PM   #42
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Default Re: Re: Flagship?

Quote:
Originally posted by dwx
Subarus flagship cars are the Outback wagon and the Forester, those are what they sell the most of by far.
flagship cars are usually the biggest, newest, priciest or coolest cars... not necessarily the ones that sell the most...
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Old 08-20-2003, 04:58 PM   #43
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What I DO know-

The profit that car manufacturers make on high performance "halo" vehicles is the lowest of any vehicle market. The profit on pickups and SUVs is the highest (thus their neverending quest to sell more behemouths).

"Halo" vehicles are more effective at bringing customers into dealerships if they are more desirable. Performance cars are more desirable if they are built in fewer numbers. (Like the Supra TT)

Subaru wants to sell Outbacks, Foresters, Imprezas, and WRXs, where the main Subaru plant is making the most money at the lowest per car cost.

Dealership employees are full of *****.

The rumor of only 3600 or 4600 STis coming to the US has been propagated since the release of the car specifications.

Only Mitsubishi personnel have been quoted saying that they will produce as many as can be sold.

If that means that they are producing more or stopping, I don't know. I don't care either, since I am running home to finish installing my radio.
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Old 08-21-2003, 06:31 PM   #44
lstepnio
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White/Silver available at Van Bortel for $400 over invoice:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postid=4465661

While calling I asked about ordering a white/gold(I'm already on the waiting list for this car from Van Bortel) and I was told that at this point it wouldn't take too long and I could expect to take deliverly between October and November which is basicly the same thing my sales person has been telling me the whole time. My local dealership in Florida also also posted on SE Forums that a Blue(I think) is up for grabs from them. Every dealership I've contacted has denied the rumor that availablity is tapering off this year.
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:34 PM   #45
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Default Re: Re: Flagship?

Quote:
Originally posted by dwx


It's not a flagship car by any means. They definitely make a profit on every one of them. Even with all the extra parts it doesn't cost $32k to make by any means. I bet they make more profit on a STI than they do a WRX or Forester. Subaru is too small of a company to throw away money making specialty vehicles. Subarus flagship cars are the Outback wagon and the Forester, those are what they sell the most of by far.
Flagship cars...
Chevy? Corvette.
Dodge? Viper.
BMW? M Series.
Nissan? 300ZX TT (350Z maybe)
Etc, etc...
Flagship is NOT the most sales.
NOT the bread and butter cars or minivans!
Like someone else said, the flagship gets you into the showroom to buy something else... Unless your insane like some of us that bought STis instead of Impreza RS... Or all the 2003s they are giving away plus low interest.
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Old 08-21-2003, 11:36 PM   #46
Neil Wallerstein
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I'd jump on it if I lived a heck of a lot closer to NY....
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