Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > Open Source Reflashes

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-11-2008, 03:39 AM   #1
sorrowfulkiller
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170439
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Vehicle:
I <3 Lamp

Default What are most e85 people on here running for timing?

I'm just curious what the rest of you running e85, what is your timing at full boost and max load?

Mines so ridiculous I don't even wanna mention it.

but I got a safe afr at 11.1-11.4
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
sorrowfulkiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 09-11-2008, 11:57 AM   #2
Infamous1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 133692
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: In So Cal tuning YOU!!! ;)
Vehicle:
2003 Chevy Z06
Black/Black

Default

If that is a true E85 afr that is not safe and very lean, what is your lambda?
Infamous1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2008, 11:18 PM   #3
Guy on the corner
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 169591
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
05 LGT

Default

I run around 5 degrees more (vs. 91 octane tune) at peak torque and around 2 degrees more the rest of the way up. I know I could run more, but without evidence to suggest benefit outweighs risk I'll keep it there.
Guy on the corner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2008, 10:57 AM   #4
sorrowfulkiller
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170439
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Vehicle:
I <3 Lamp

Default

No its not true e85 afr its still gasoline afr I took a local pro tuners advice and kept it on the gas scale because he said it's around the same for tuning with gas than it is e85 except you can go about as lean as 12-1
sorrowfulkiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 01:35 PM   #5
bcblues
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17256
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: America's Outback
Vehicle:
18 Outback
on the road....

Default

E85 takes just a bit more time to ignite, but then the flame propagation is quicker than with petrol, so E85 really requires about the same timing as petrol. Now, since E85 is much higher octane than most pump gas, you can safely advance timing until you stop seeing benefit (or you start seeing knock, which would be unusual).
bcblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 04:12 PM   #6
eminehart
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11205
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Tweakin your ECU-Portlandia
Vehicle:
2015 WRX
WRB

Default

I keep timing at low loads about the same as stock. At highest loads I would add about 5 degress of extra timing. You will have to set timing on a dyno because unlike gas you will go way past MBT before you get knock. Knock under high loads is almost nonexistent. I have gone as much as 12 degrees over stock timing with no knock running safe boost levels.
As far as AFR..... 12.7 to 12.00 is a good range. With 12 being very safe.
eminehart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 11:04 PM   #7
bcblues
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17256
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: America's Outback
Vehicle:
18 Outback
on the road....

Default

Yeah, that is what I am finding: You run out of benefit before you encounter knock. Even with stock timing and additional boost (within reason) you will see (feel) more torque.
bcblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2008, 11:44 PM   #8
eminehart
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11205
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Tweakin your ECU-Portlandia
Vehicle:
2015 WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcblues View Post
Yeah, that is what I am finding: You run out of benefit before you encounter knock. Even with stock timing and additional boost (within reason) you will see (feel) more torque.
Boost will come on faster and harder because of the increased exhaust volume of e85. You may even need to make small WGDC adjustments because of this.
eminehart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2008, 02:10 PM   #9
bcblues
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17256
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: America's Outback
Vehicle:
18 Outback
on the road....

Default

The more torque that I refered to is probably due (at least in part) to quicker spooling, although my logs do not show this definitively.
bcblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2008, 03:09 PM   #10
NITROS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 41561
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
04 GT3076 2.1
Stroker = Broken 3rd

Default

This question has probably already been asked. But I will ask it anyway. I just need someone to confirm my thinking.

for gas stechiometric 1 lamda = 14.7 : 1
for e85 stechiometric 1 lamda = 9.765 :1

Since, a wideband is always reading lamda then does a conversion.

Does this mean?...
When tuning with gas and I am looking to hit a target of 12 afr. In terms of lamda this means 12/14.7 is 0.816 lamda.

Now if i put in a full tank of e85 and not change the map. I will run lean with a unchanged tune. Because i have not modifed my map to add extra fuel. With an unchanged map 12/9.765 = 1.228 lamda. 1.228 lamda e85 is the equal to 1.228 * 14.7 = 18.06 gas afr. Which is far too lean and bye bye engine.


What this means is that I do not have to configure my stechiometric on my wideband to 9.765. I can leave it at 14.7 and know that when i see 12 afr on my wide band i am really at 7.968 afr when using e85.

Is my logic right?
NITROS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2008, 05:32 PM   #11
NITROS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 41561
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
04 GT3076 2.1
Stroker = Broken 3rd

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NITROS View Post
This question has probably already been asked. But I will ask it anyway. I just need someone to confirm my thinking.

for gas stechiometric 1 lamda = 14.7 : 1
for e85 stechiometric 1 lamda = 9.765 :1

Since, a wideband is always reading lamda then does a conversion.

Does this mean?...
When tuning with gas and I am looking to hit a target of 12 afr. In terms of lamda this means 12/14.7 is 0.816 lamda.

Now if i put in a full tank of e85 and not change the map. I will run lean with a unchanged tune. Because i have not modifed my map to add extra fuel. With an unchanged map 12/9.765 = 1.228 lamda. 1.228 lamda e85 is the equal to 1.228 * 14.7 = 18.06 gas afr. Which is far too lean and bye bye engine.


What this means is that I do not have to configure my stechiometric on my wideband to 9.765. I can leave it at 14.7 and know that when i see 12 afr on my wide band i am really at 7.968 afr when using e85.

Is my logic right?


After more reading i was able to determine this is true.
NITROS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2008, 11:36 PM   #12
Guy on the corner
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 169591
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
05 LGT

Default

I've tuned (just my car) both gas and E85 and did the conversion myself. You are making this much too difficult. Simply have your WB02 report in lambda. Quit converting back and forth. I don't know whether your assertions are right or wrong but you are wasting time and risking a disaster by doing all the math. Keep it simple.

If you use Romraider convert your fueling table to lambda also.
Guy on the corner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2008, 01:17 PM   #13
bcblues
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17256
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: America's Outback
Vehicle:
18 Outback
on the road....

Default

Or keep it REALLY simple and just shoot for petrol AFRs that are just a bit richer than normal, say 11:1.
bcblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2008, 04:40 PM   #14
eminehart
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 11205
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Tweakin your ECU-Portlandia
Vehicle:
2015 WRX
WRB

Default

I just have a hard time getting my brain adjusted to lambda so I keep everything in Gasoline AFR's. I have found most tuners(pro/amateur) do the same.
eminehart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2008, 05:24 PM   #15
Infamous1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 133692
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: In So Cal tuning YOU!!! ;)
Vehicle:
2003 Chevy Z06
Black/Black

Default

My wideband reports both at the same time (Zeitronix) Now I just need a station to carry it locally
Infamous1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2008, 08:30 PM   #16
bcblues
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17256
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: America's Outback
Vehicle:
18 Outback
on the road....

Default

I have no problem thinking in terms of lambda. Heck, I work with the metric system at work and all the engineers use SAE! It is just that while in AFR mode, the difference between E85 optimum as reported in petrol AFR just happens to be very nearly the same. Why bother?
bcblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 01:48 PM   #17
MRX WRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114566
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: houston
Vehicle:
2005 STI
aspen white

Default

i keep timing 2 degrees over stock til 5750 and then a rapidly advance up to 26 degrees at redline this is with EWG and a t67, 3076 eetc etc. on 93 i could not get more than around 18 degrees before it would knock. i tune to 11.5 AFR and it feels stronger than 12 AFR athough i dont have a dyno sheet to compare.
MRX WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 01:55 PM   #18
illmatic
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3536
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: SD, OC
Vehicle:
2017 SWP BRZ PP, FXT
2002/2003 AW/PSM WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous1 View Post
My wideband reports both at the same time (Zeitronix) Now I just need a station to carry it locally
Where are you located?

http://www.conservfuel.com/
illmatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 05:23 PM   #19
Infamous1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 133692
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: In So Cal tuning YOU!!! ;)
Vehicle:
2003 Chevy Z06
Black/Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by illmatic View Post
Where are you located?

http://www.conservfuel.com/
Haha, yeah I know about that one. I am in Fontana though, there is suppose to be one opening up in Perris in November and another in Pomona early next year. Hopefully.....
Infamous1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
You can meet the most interesting people on the train... Neek Off-Topic 28 05-16-2008 03:54 PM
What are you annoying people with.....v. ringer on phone The Tree Off-Topic 86 08-26-2007 10:26 PM
Why are so many people on here such a-holes lately? 24 Off-Topic 2 01-05-2007 04:16 PM
how many people are going to willow on 2/21 for that duratec event? Poe Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 6 01-26-2003 08:25 PM
What are the highest spring rates being run on the street? DigDug Brakes, Steering & Suspension 2 07-14-2001 07:45 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.