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09-11-2008, 03:39 AM | #1 |
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What are most e85 people on here running for timing?
I'm just curious what the rest of you running e85, what is your timing at full boost and max load?
Mines so ridiculous I don't even wanna mention it. but I got a safe afr at 11.1-11.4
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09-11-2008, 11:57 AM | #2 |
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If that is a true E85 afr that is not safe and very lean, what is your lambda?
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09-11-2008, 11:18 PM | #3 |
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I run around 5 degrees more (vs. 91 octane tune) at peak torque and around 2 degrees more the rest of the way up. I know I could run more, but without evidence to suggest benefit outweighs risk I'll keep it there.
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09-15-2008, 10:57 AM | #4 |
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No its not true e85 afr its still gasoline afr I took a local pro tuners advice and kept it on the gas scale because he said it's around the same for tuning with gas than it is e85 except you can go about as lean as 12-1
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09-16-2008, 01:35 PM | #5 |
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E85 takes just a bit more time to ignite, but then the flame propagation is quicker than with petrol, so E85 really requires about the same timing as petrol. Now, since E85 is much higher octane than most pump gas, you can safely advance timing until you stop seeing benefit (or you start seeing knock, which would be unusual).
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09-16-2008, 04:12 PM | #6 |
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I keep timing at low loads about the same as stock. At highest loads I would add about 5 degress of extra timing. You will have to set timing on a dyno because unlike gas you will go way past MBT before you get knock. Knock under high loads is almost nonexistent. I have gone as much as 12 degrees over stock timing with no knock running safe boost levels.
As far as AFR..... 12.7 to 12.00 is a good range. With 12 being very safe. |
09-16-2008, 11:04 PM | #7 |
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Yeah, that is what I am finding: You run out of benefit before you encounter knock. Even with stock timing and additional boost (within reason) you will see (feel) more torque.
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09-16-2008, 11:44 PM | #8 |
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Boost will come on faster and harder because of the increased exhaust volume of e85. You may even need to make small WGDC adjustments because of this.
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09-17-2008, 02:10 PM | #9 |
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The more torque that I refered to is probably due (at least in part) to quicker spooling, although my logs do not show this definitively.
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09-17-2008, 03:09 PM | #10 |
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This question has probably already been asked. But I will ask it anyway. I just need someone to confirm my thinking.
for gas stechiometric 1 lamda = 14.7 : 1 for e85 stechiometric 1 lamda = 9.765 :1 Since, a wideband is always reading lamda then does a conversion. Does this mean?... When tuning with gas and I am looking to hit a target of 12 afr. In terms of lamda this means 12/14.7 is 0.816 lamda. Now if i put in a full tank of e85 and not change the map. I will run lean with a unchanged tune. Because i have not modifed my map to add extra fuel. With an unchanged map 12/9.765 = 1.228 lamda. 1.228 lamda e85 is the equal to 1.228 * 14.7 = 18.06 gas afr. Which is far too lean and bye bye engine. What this means is that I do not have to configure my stechiometric on my wideband to 9.765. I can leave it at 14.7 and know that when i see 12 afr on my wide band i am really at 7.968 afr when using e85. Is my logic right? |
09-17-2008, 05:32 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
After more reading i was able to determine this is true. |
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09-17-2008, 11:36 PM | #12 |
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I've tuned (just my car) both gas and E85 and did the conversion myself. You are making this much too difficult. Simply have your WB02 report in lambda. Quit converting back and forth. I don't know whether your assertions are right or wrong but you are wasting time and risking a disaster by doing all the math. Keep it simple.
If you use Romraider convert your fueling table to lambda also. |
09-18-2008, 01:17 PM | #13 |
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Or keep it REALLY simple and just shoot for petrol AFRs that are just a bit richer than normal, say 11:1.
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09-18-2008, 04:40 PM | #14 |
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I just have a hard time getting my brain adjusted to lambda so I keep everything in Gasoline AFR's. I have found most tuners(pro/amateur) do the same.
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09-18-2008, 05:24 PM | #15 |
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My wideband reports both at the same time (Zeitronix) Now I just need a station to carry it locally
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09-18-2008, 08:30 PM | #16 |
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I have no problem thinking in terms of lambda. Heck, I work with the metric system at work and all the engineers use SAE! It is just that while in AFR mode, the difference between E85 optimum as reported in petrol AFR just happens to be very nearly the same. Why bother?
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09-22-2008, 01:48 PM | #17 |
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i keep timing 2 degrees over stock til 5750 and then a rapidly advance up to 26 degrees at redline this is with EWG and a t67, 3076 eetc etc. on 93 i could not get more than around 18 degrees before it would knock. i tune to 11.5 AFR and it feels stronger than 12 AFR athough i dont have a dyno sheet to compare.
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09-22-2008, 01:55 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
http://www.conservfuel.com/ |
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09-22-2008, 05:23 PM | #19 | |
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