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09-15-2014, 11:29 AM | #1 | |
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Nissan may pull the plug on some battery-plantproduction as EV hopes fade
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09-15-2014, 03:36 PM | #2 |
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The Leaf has taught us that nobody is going to buy an electric car with less than 200 mile range in the real world, even if you practically give them away. Remember when Tesla discontinued their cheapest and shortest range model S? Despite the financial implications for Nissan, all this battery production stuff is only one part of that larger problem.
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09-15-2014, 03:56 PM | #3 |
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This is a misleading title and summary. LEAF sales are just fine--new records near monthly, at a 25k+ per year pace in the US. Not bad.
The problem is of the cost effectiveness of the Smyrna plant relative to LG. LG is building batteries cheaper, so it makes sense for Nissan to buy from them. http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/ |
09-15-2014, 04:40 PM | #4 |
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Correct, and the next gen leaf is going to add roughly 100 mile range to existing range.
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09-15-2014, 05:22 PM | #5 | |
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see shik's post for details. However, the only area the title is right is in the originally hoped for volume is too optimistic by about 50%. |
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09-15-2014, 05:28 PM | #6 |
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How about Nissan make an EV vehicle that doesn't look like a complete turd.
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09-15-2014, 06:21 PM | #7 | ||
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09-15-2014, 11:12 PM | #8 | |
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It's the douchiest looking car out there. I drive an electric car and I NEED you to know it. It's like Dodge trucks as of late. 12x14" ram logo with chrome lettering you can see from a mile away. "Yiiiiiiip, it appears that fella drives a truck" Or its to remind ******** like me it's a Ram. *Runs to the gripe thread |
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09-15-2014, 11:41 PM | #9 | |
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09-16-2014, 12:00 AM | #10 |
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Last edited by Uncle Scotty; 09-16-2014 at 12:17 AM. |
09-16-2014, 12:45 AM | #11 | |
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Even if Nissan gave the Leaf the same range as a tesla vehicle, still priced it less, would look at it and go "damn, that car looks great, and the EV is just a bonus!".... None. There are plenty of people who live in cities that drive much less than 100 miles... Hell, the majority of people who own any car dont see 100 miles a day. Yes, farther range is better. No on is going to argue that. However, there are certain looks and features that are going to appeal to a much larger population. You can give a vehicle 600 mile range, if it looks like complete ****, how many people will still buy it? Do you think Tesla would be selling as many vehicles if it had identical bland styling like the Leaf? The answer is no. Last edited by godfather2112; 09-16-2014 at 01:09 AM. |
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09-16-2014, 03:37 AM | #12 | |
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Do you really think it's just a simple coincidence Tesla is planning the Model III with a 200 mile range instead of a 100 (or lower) mile range like the Leaf? Yes, if it looked like a ****ty Fisher Kaput, most people would say "no thanks" but that's hardly the case. 87 ESTIMATED miles real world isn't enough. It's not ALWAYS 87 miles either since most people don't try to squeeze every single mile out like the average consumer who buys a Leaf. Climate control, radio, etc. as always will drain the battery. Last edited by A W; 09-16-2014 at 04:22 AM. Reason: Typo |
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09-16-2014, 08:10 AM | #13 |
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Remember, because of range anxiety, nobody is going to drive an EV until its battery is about to die. Lots of people fill up their gas tank when it's say 1/4 or 1/8 full according to the fuel gauge. It's the same with an EV, except you can't stop at a gas station normally. So that effectively decreases your range.
Then you put weather effects on top of that, that decreases your range in hot and cold conditions. Then account for the fact that EV range is certified by driving the EPA city cycle over and over again on a chassis dyno until the vehicle dies--it's not a very aggressive drive cycle. The usable, normal driving range for an EV is significantly less than advertised because of these factors (weather, drive cycle, reserve due to anxiety). |
09-16-2014, 10:19 AM | #14 | |
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I just did a test drive and was really surprised. It's a big go cart and has torque. Lots of features, superb Nav, Bose sound system kicks ass. Costing me about $5 a month in electricity to run it. Decent test car, for me, for several years, to see if E is feasible. If Subaru doesn't release a 5dr wrx/sti in the next 3 years I'll probably buy the Tesla Model 3 or lease another Leaf. I also wish they'd just make it look like a regular hatch but at the end of the day it's not that big of a deal. And doesn't appear to me a big deal to many because they are moving them, 85 mile range and all. $199 a month and $5 monthly fuel is pretty damn tough to beat. Will be hard to go back to spending $100 or more on gasoline for a car a month after driving this thing. |
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09-16-2014, 10:48 AM | #15 |
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You just hardly see those Leafs around here in the northeast. Quite a few Model S's, but no Leafs. Unlike when I lived in SoCal almost a year ago, Leafs were a common appearance, especially among the people I commuted to Los Angeles with. There were tons of state and local incentives to lease one and our parking lot at the train station constructed several solar powered charging stations for their use. Even folks who lived in condos with no self charging stations were encouraged to lease them because the infrastructure was there. Here in the northeast, those incentives just don't exist.
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09-16-2014, 12:44 PM | #16 | |
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09-16-2014, 03:16 PM | #17 |
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I have seven 7 leafs, ever.
They are an oddity like an Aztek. You have to stare, but not in a good way. Once more infrastructure pops up, EV will be more common. That is the only thing that is holding them back. Batteries suck, sure, they always do. But with enough charging stations they can be a daily driver for many more people. It is very psychological. If you are an appliance driver. I mean you do not care what you drive and you are the kind of person who makes spreadsheets about what offers the best long term value kind of guy. Driving past a charging station or two on the way to work every day would start to send the message slowly, hey, maybe I can make this work. I really believe, that if you build EV stations, the cars will come. |
09-16-2014, 04:02 PM | #18 |
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I disagree.
The charging infrastructure is already here--120V or 240V power in your garage. The public level 2 EVSE installations are just for peace of mind. Level 3 quick chargers are a different ballgame, but I wouldn't count on having one operational and available for my daily commute. |
09-16-2014, 04:36 PM | #19 |
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But I personally beleive people need to SEE that they will not be stranded no matter where they are. People are not ready for the charge every day mindset. I think they need to know that if I forget, I can charge on the way home.
Maybe I am wrong...The EV tifosi do not need to be convinced, they are already on board with the lifestyle. You have to wrap up Mr. and Mrs. Camry. |
09-16-2014, 07:59 PM | #20 | |
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Last edited by pete_falcone; 09-16-2014 at 08:08 PM. |
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09-16-2014, 11:00 PM | #21 | |
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09-17-2014, 08:00 AM | #22 | |
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dont worry Bugatti has your ass covered http://www.glamcar.com/bugatti/rumor...GlamCar.com%29 |
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09-17-2014, 09:31 AM | #23 |
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Put me in the "if it didn't look stupid" category of potential buyers. It reminds me of when hybrids first came out. Many car manufacturers made the cars look odd simply because buyers wanted others to know that "hey, I'm saving the environment and driving a hybrid".
I like the tesla roadster and the model S. I can realistically afford either. The volt isn't bad looking but is also expensive for what it is. $40k buys some fun cars. The Think EV and Leaf just look like they're trying too hard to say "look at me! i'm driving electric!". Make them look like normal everyday cars. |
09-17-2014, 10:14 AM | #24 |
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Well, the hybrid versions of everyday cars like the Accord didn't sell very well, especially in the beginning. Meanwhile, the 2nd gen and later Prius had a very distinct look, one that also had an aerodynamic benefit. So you can't blame them for making a "look at me" styling from that perspective. It worked for the Prius.
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09-17-2014, 12:12 PM | #25 |
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It's almost like different people have different tastes....
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