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Old 06-03-2009, 01:33 AM   #1
Cyberguy
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Default Problem with open/closed loop

I own a My02 Bugeye WRX, with stock turbo, sti i/c, prodrive triport boost controller, decat excaust pipe. I program my car with OpenEcu.

Recently I noticed that my car constantly runs on open loop and even though I dont get a Check engine, in my logger I noticed that (i cant remember which value) I get a number 7 which means "running in open loop, due to insufficient coolant temp"

My water coolant temp is 91 celcius degrees, which is within the normal operating values.

Just in case someone needs to read logs here they are http://rapidshare.com/files/238682031/TRIPORT.rar.html
(deftera=second gear,triti=third,tetarti=fourth,pempti=fifth)
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:55 AM   #2
the suicidal eggroll
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7 means more than insufficient coolant temp. I'm not sure all the reasons the car could run in CL/OL mode 7, but I know there are at least 2:

o2 sensor is warming up
map is set up so the car never enters CL (minimum OL enrichment is set above the target OL enrichment, and no cells are set to the CL target (14.7))

If I want to force my car to run 100% OL, I raise the minimum OL enrichment value to something above 14.7 (I think I use 15-16), and then change all of my 14.7 cells in the target OL enrichment to 14.6. When I do that, my CL/OL status stays at 7 permanently. In fact, that's how the car is currently set up...I hate CL
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:09 PM   #3
Cyberguy
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there is a chance that my gasket between the uppipe and the header to be broken. If i lose air from there is it possible the o2 sensor (you mean the one on the downpipe or the one in the uppipe?) to give wrong indications and keep the car in OL?

What I noticed in AF learning is that on idle the sensor cant keep 14,7:1 and it moves up to 15-16. can this be the same symptom from the broken gasket?

regards
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:26 PM   #4
the suicidal eggroll
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The front o2 is the one that's used for CL, the rear is just used to check the cat. If you had a bad enough leak before the front o2 it would make it read lean, but that wouldn't keep you from switching to CL, it would just make your AFR trims go wacky and start dumping in fuel. I don't know if a leak after the front o2 would do anything at all (the front o2 is in the collector on the header, not the uppipe).

Your AFR Learning shouldn't be doing anything if you're suck in OL.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:33 PM   #5
Cyberguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
The front o2 is the one that's used for CL, the rear is just used to check the cat. If you had a bad enough leak before the front o2 it would make it read lean, but that wouldn't keep you from switching to CL, it would just make your AFR trims go wacky and start dumping in fuel. I don't know if a leak after the front o2 would do anything at all (the front o2 is in the collector on the header, not the uppipe).

Your AFR Learning shouldn't be doing anything if you're suck in OL.
in the european bugeyes the O2 is on the uppipe e.g. http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sel...TPUPSI0205.gif

well lately i see that i get a los of fule in my excaust, so maybe the O2 is misreading and adding more fuel. but thats only when I am @ idle. When i cruise with 3000-4000rpms, propably because the leak is not too big everything works fine. only in idling i get wrong afr.

Anyway I will change the gaskets and I will see if that was the problem

thnx for your help
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:37 PM   #6
the suicidal eggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberguy View Post
in the european bugeyes the O2 is on the uppipe e.g. http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sel...TPUPSI0205.gif
Are you sure that's the o2? That's where the EGT goes on the USDM, and the bung in that pic looks a little too small for an o2.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Are you sure that's the o2? That's where the EGT goes on the USDM, and the bung in that pic looks a little too small for an o2.
I think that we use a combined sensor. both for egt+o2. In my car I have only 2 sensors, the one I showed you in the uppipe and a 2nd in the end of the downpipe (its after the cat-even though i dont have one)

Yesterday i checked the car with my mechanic and the gaskets @ the uppipe and the header and they were fine, but we found a faulty gasket @ the connection of the downpipe and the turbo.

I ordered new gaskets and tommorow I will replace them all. I just hope the problem comes from the broken gasket
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:51 AM   #8
jaxscuby
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OMGHi2U concur..

Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
Are you sure that's the o2? That's where the EGT goes on the USDM, and the bung in that pic looks a little too small for an o2.
i would have concur with eggroll...
unless you guys have a really small o2 sensor..
it appears to be egt bung..
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxscuby View Post
i would have concur with eggroll...
unless you guys have a really small o2 sensor..
it appears to be egt bung..
Thirded.

The O2 sensor threads into the manifold, near the base of the up-pipe.
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:33 AM   #10
Cyberguy
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I am sure that it is the o2 sensor combined with the egt. i dont have any other sensors

Last edited by Cyberguy; 06-05-2009 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 06-05-2009, 04:03 AM   #11
Spudchucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll View Post
7 means more than insufficient coolant temp. I'm not sure all the reasons the car could run in CL/OL mode 7, but I know there are at least 2:

o2 sensor is warming up
map is set up so the car never enters CL (minimum OL enrichment is set above the target OL enrichment, and no cells are set to the CL target (14.7))

If I want to force my car to run 100% OL, I raise the minimum OL enrichment value to something above 14.7 (I think I use 15-16), and then change all of my 14.7 cells in the target OL enrichment to 14.6. When I do that, my CL/OL status stays at 7 permanently. In fact, that's how the car is currently set up...I hate CL
Your open loop doesn't go to a 10 after like 10 minutes of driving? In my 06 (pretty sure our computers are similar) it starts as a 7, then once the sensor is completely warm and changing up and down, it goes to a 10.



OP- have you done much modification to the intake without tuning for it? Aftermarket injectors that potentially aren't tuned right? When I modified my injectors, I had to find their size by guessing and checking with the scalar, and being even 5-10cc's off would send the AFRs way out of whack and leave the car searching for a foothold. Then I went to modify my MAF scale next, and it was freaking +/-30% on the scaling tool (in both directions), which explained the realllllly crappy drivability as I logged the MAF. It very well could be the gasket, that's just a couple more things to look at if you still have a problem after you change it.
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Old 06-05-2009, 04:17 AM   #12
Tea cups
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A sensor failure that resulted in forcing open loop all the time would result in a CEL unless you disabled that particular CEL.

You can also force open loop all the time with certain tuning changes, which would result in no CEL. If this happened recently, try going back to an old map before the problem occured.

7 = open loop waiting on o2 sensor to warm up
8 = closed loop normal
10 = open loop normal
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:21 AM   #13
the suicidal eggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudchucker View Post
Your open loop doesn't go to a 10 after like 10 minutes of driving? In my 06 (pretty sure our computers are similar) it starts as a 7, then once the sensor is completely warm and changing up and down, it goes to a 10.
Don't believe so, if my car never goes into CL, it never goes into "normal" OL (status 10). It's almost as if the CL/OL status HAS to pass through 8 before it can get to 10, because if I disable CL via tuning, the status stays at 7 permanently.
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:40 PM   #14
Cyberguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudchucker View Post
In my 06 (pretty sure our computers are similar) it starts as a 7, then once the sensor is completely warm and changing up and down, it goes to a 10.


your ECU is 32bit and mine is 16bit

I have not changed injectors or air intake. everything is stock excause the excaust. I still did not have time to plug my netbook in my obd. As soon as I have news I will post them
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