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Old 03-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #326
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I don't buy it. How many production 2.0L turbo engines make over 300hp? Plus, it isn't Ford's style to push the envelope in this area, especially on a budget pony car. I'd be less surprised to see them offer a 250hp 2.0T option, along with V6/GT/etc. If they do uncharacteristically decide to push the 2.0T up towards 300hp, I'd expect it to replace the V6 as the base.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:18 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Rootus View Post
I don't buy it. How many production 2.0L turbo engines make over 300hp? Plus, it isn't Ford's style to push the envelope in this area, especially on a budget pony car. I'd be less surprised to see them offer a 250hp 2.0T option, along with V6/GT/etc. If they do uncharacteristically decide to push the 2.0T up towards 300hp, I'd expect it to replace the V6 as the base.
A lot of places are saying a 2.3L 4-cylinder EcoBoost for the 2015 Mustang/Focus RS. If they can make 250+bhp for the Focus ST out of the 2.0, I don't think 300bhp with a 2.3L should be a problem, especially if they change up equipment a little or "tune" it more aggressively. If this is the case, it wouldn't be able to replace the V6 as the base engine because it would end up costing more than a base V6 ($23K right now). It would most likely slot between the base V6 and base GT at maybe the $26-27K mark (total estimation obviously).
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:19 AM   #328
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I think the SVO nameplate is due for a revival as a turbo V6 GT model...
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:27 PM   #329
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A lot of places are saying a 2.3L 4-cylinder EcoBoost for the 2015 Mustang/Focus RS. If they can make 250+bhp for the Focus ST out of the 2.0, I don't think 300bhp with a 2.3L should be a problem, especially if they change up equipment a little or "tune" it more aggressively. If this is the case, it wouldn't be able to replace the V6 as the base engine because it would end up costing more than a base V6 ($23K right now). It would most likely slot between the base V6 and base GT at maybe the $26-27K mark (total estimation obviously).
More money, less performance, and maybe a couple more mpg? This would be an odd decision on Ford's part IMO. They've done something similar recently (F150) so there's precedent, but I'd be surprised nonetheless. It's tough to find a good argument for changing either the V6 or the GT formula.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:50 PM   #330
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More money, less performance, and maybe a couple more mpg? This would be an odd decision on Ford's part IMO. They've done something similar recently (F150) so there's precedent, but I'd be surprised nonetheless. It's tough to find a good argument for changing either the V6 or the GT formula.
Well the 2.0T Fusion makes 22 city/33 highway as opposed to the V6 Mustangs 19/31. The new Mustang is going to be lighter than both of those cars so I would expect at least 22/33 out of the 4-cylinder Mustang. As far as performance, it should be higher than the V6 because it's supposedly going to make the same power, but it will make it lower in the RPM range so performance should improve as well. The only downside is price and that's because Ford is charging more for their Ecoboost models, but that's just the name of the game. Same with the F150, as you mentioned.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:16 PM   #331
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I would expect at least 22/33 out of the 4-cylinder Mustang.
does that equate to 30 mpg on average?
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:02 AM   #332
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does that equate to 30 mpg on average?
It would be about 26.4mpg combined if you're doing 50% city and 50% highway, if I'm calculating it the right way; which I might not be.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:14 AM   #333
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It would be about 26.4mpg combined if you're doing 50% city and 50% highway, if I'm calculating it the right way; which I might not be.
That looks correct.

1/((1/22 + 1/33)/2) = 26.4

Think how much simpler that calculation would be if we'd quit using mpg as a measurement. Car companies love it, though.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:53 AM   #334
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If I recall correctly, the current (outgoing) 305-hp Focus RS is officially rated at a combined 30.1 mpg (in the UK). And a recent publication was able to get ~38 mpg out of it in a hypermiling challenge.

Assuming the newer 2.3 Ecoboost engine can pull similar numbers, it does look like there's at least the potential for substantial fuel economy gains over the already impressive 3.7 V6, if it were to become a "mid-range" engine for the mustang.

Of course, drive it like it's meant to be driven, and all that will go out the window. But I'm sure Ford would love to put a "30 mpg combined" EPA rating on the window sticker of the Mustang. It's purely a marketing feature.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:13 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by ForceFed4 View Post
If I recall correctly, the current (outgoing) 305-hp Focus RS is officially rated at a combined 30.1 mpg (in the UK). And a recent publication was able to get ~38 mpg out of it in a hypermiling challenge.

Assuming the newer 2.3 Ecoboost engine can pull similar numbers, it does look like there's at least the potential for substantial fuel economy gains over the already impressive 3.7 V6, if it were to become a "mid-range" engine for the mustang.

Of course, drive it like it's meant to be driven, and all that will go out the window. But I'm sure Ford would love to put a "30 mpg combined" EPA rating on the window sticker of the Mustang. It's purely a marketing feature.
30.1 UK mpg = 25.06 US mpg so it should have no problem doing that. Off-topic, but I love the sound of that I5 in the 2nd gen RS. Wish the Mustang got that motor...
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:38 AM   #336
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It would be about 26.4mpg combined if you're doing 50% city and 50% highway, if I'm calculating it the right way; which I might not be.
alright, so do the 2016 CAFE standards require each car sold to average 30 mpg, or collectively all cars offered by a manufacturer? because if its each, 26.4 ain't gonna cut it
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:07 PM   #337
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I think their lineup has to average that, not each vehicle.
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Old 03-17-2013, 02:38 PM   #338
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alright, so do the 2016 CAFE standards require each car sold to average 30 mpg, or collectively all cars offered by a manufacturer? because if its each, 26.4 ain't gonna cut it
Yes, across the line with many adjustments.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...cafe-standards
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:02 AM   #339
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alright, so do the 2016 CAFE standards require each car sold to average 30 mpg, or collectively all cars offered by a manufacturer? because if its each, 26.4 ain't gonna cut it
all CARs sold. so if they sell 2 cars with 35mpg and 1 with 20mpg, viola, 30mpg cafe average.

that doesn't include trucks, or more rightly, vehicles classed as trucks, they still have lower standards.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #340
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if they sell 2 cars with 35mpg and 1 with 20mpg, viola, 30mpg cafe average.
One hopes that the calculated average would be 28. But then again, it's the gov't ...
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:07 AM   #341
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all CARs sold. so if they sell 2 cars with 35mpg and 1 with 20mpg, viola, 30mpg cafe average.

that doesn't include trucks, or more rightly, vehicles classed as trucks, they still have lower standards.

Questionable math and string instruments, wat?
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #342
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A lot of it is auto companies meeting those targets by using taller gears to get max cruising mpg, hence why the city mpg for a lot of cars has been fairly consistent while the highway mpg is improving more significantly on paper. It's better than nothing, but still, it would be nice to see more than just different ratios (and greater numbers of them) accounting for the majority of the increase in fuel economy, as I'd think that a lot of the technology going into the engine is what really helps improve city mpg.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:14 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootus View Post
One hopes that the calculated average would be 28. But then again, it's the gov't ...
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Originally Posted by express_wagon View Post
Questionable math and string instruments, wat?
I fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - and slightly less well-known is: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line" - but even more slightly less well known is this: "never calculate arithmetic mean when you should be calculating harmonic mean"
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:48 PM   #344
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I fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - and slightly less well-known is: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line" - but even more slightly less well known is this: "never calculate arithmetic mean when you should be calculating harmonic mean"
What I don't get though, is why is harmonic mean more appropriate than typical arithmetic in this case. Using harmonic just guarantees a lower than what should be expected average. All it does is make the estimate more conservative in terms of the MPG model...
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:39 PM   #345
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The May 2013 Issue of Automobile Magazine is out and the publication contains some interesting new speculation about the 2015 Mustang. Some of this information has been known and/or widely speculated while other info is new.

Highlights:
The 2015 Mustang will premiere at the New York Auto Show on April 16 or 17, 2014. It will be slightly smaller and lighter and come close to retaining the current car's muscularity. The current 5.8L V8 in the GT500 will not fit in the slimmer 2015 Mustang. It will have an independent rear suspension (IRS).

The article also suggests that 6 (yes, six) different engine options will be available for the S550:
EcoBoost 5.0 Coyote Engine for the GT500
N/A 5.0 Coyote Engine for the Boss 302 (and presumably the GT)
EcoBoost 3.5L V6
N/A 3.7L V6
EcoBoost 2.0L 4-cylinder


Mustang6G.com thread

Looks like the V6 EcoBoost idea isn't totally dead, which is what I was hoping would show up in the new Mustang. I don't know where they're getting "6 different engines" though, I only see 5 listed.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:43 PM   #346
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EcoBoost Coyote engine? That thing should be pretty mean.

I'm a little confused at what they're going to call each trim level though, assuming that they name the model different things depending on the engine, which makes sense given how they've typically been.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:15 PM   #347
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So much win!

I cant wait for a turbo 5.0 coyote.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:25 PM   #348
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The article also suggests that 6 (yes, six) different engine options will be available for the S550:
EcoBoost 5.0 Coyote Engine for the GT500
N/A 5.0 Coyote Engine for the Boss 302 (and presumably the GT)
EcoBoost 3.5L V6
N/A 3.7L V6
EcoBoost 2.0L 4-cylinder
I'll believe it when I see it. The EcoBoost 3.5L and the N/A 5.0L occupy essentially the same position, as does the EcoBoost 2.0L and the NA 3.7L.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:30 PM   #349
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IMO they wont have another BOSS 302. Ecoboost 5.0 would be nice but i cant see them doing it. 800 whp mustang???
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:07 AM   #350
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yeh i dont expect another Boss either.
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