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03-13-2010, 11:27 AM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 241045
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Hanahan, SC
Vehicle:1996 Legacy Outback green |
1996 outback, won't start, overheated, timing
Okay, I'll try to give you as much info as possible. I have a 1996 Subaru legacy outback, 2.5L, auto tranny.
The guy I bought it from said it was having overheating problems. They changed thermostat, wife drove it to work next day, overheated again and then wouldn't start when she wanted to drive home. A quick look at the front of the engine and the timing belt has eaten its way thru the plastic covers. I took it apart and the timing belt had melted all over the pulleys and tore itself up good. It was detached. The water pump was bad (grinding). I replaced the water pump, one of the idlers that was making noise, and put a new timing belt on. I expected valve damage but figured it wouldn't hurt to try a new belt. Car still wouldn't start. The white marks on the belt no longer matched up with the pulley marks, so I thought maybe I had done something wrong. I removed the belt and reinstalled it (I'm using the endwrench.com article as a guide). Car still wouldn't start. I noticed the pulley marks lined up again but the white lines on the belt didn't (again) so I guess the belt marks are just a guide for installation. I checked each plug for spark, and replaced the plugs since they were old/worn. Checked compression while the plugs were out, each cylinder has about 150lbs. Cranked car and got a loud backfire on the first try, then just turns over as before with no start. Car has good fuel pressure. Has power to the injectors, but I don't know how to test them with my meter to KNOW they are regulating fuel properly. I have 9.75v across the pins with the key switch on and about 8 volts with the engine cranking. This is about the same as on my friends 1998 outback (8.25 volts cranking). I don't like to just replace parts willy-nilly. I am good with a meter if someone can tell me what to check. I originally expected the valves to be bent (but figured it wouldn't hurt to try a new belt) but since I have compression I *assume* they are operating properly. The car turns over in what I consider a 'normal' fashion, with no unusual noises, etc. This is the first subaru I've ever worked on. I bought it to drive; I figure by the time I get it right, I'll know the car inside and out and then I should get a lot of years and miles out of it. Perhaps I am making an assumption that doesn't apply to Subies or missing something obvious. I've never worked on a DOHC engine before. We tried a little ether, and we had spark, but it still won't run at all. Any ideas on where to start next?
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03-13-2010, 11:54 AM | #2 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 80465
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2001 2.5RS Black Diamond Pearl |
You're getting spark, but is it at the correct time? Check crank/cam sensors, and wiring to make sure there is no problem there. How does the crank sprocket look? does it have all the teeth for the sensor to pick up?
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03-13-2010, 12:10 PM | #3 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 241045
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Hanahan, SC
Vehicle:1996 Legacy Outback green |
I believe it is timed correctly (as far as the belt is concerned).
All the teeth look fine on all of the sprockets. I have checked all of the connections and wires. The crank sensor *looks* new, as if it had been replaced. Do you know any specs for me to use to check the sensors. This haynes manual the library had is about useless except for torque values. My friend has a 98 outback. Do you know if those sensors are interchangeable? If so, I can try switching them out... FYI, I am trying to get it to fire up, but have not reassembled all of the stuff back on the motor yet (alt and a/c belts/covers/etc). Doesn't make a difference on other cars, perhaps here it does? Initially I left it all off in case I ended up having to pull the motor and do a valve job. |
03-13-2010, 03:42 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 80465
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Denver
Vehicle:2001 2.5RS Black Diamond Pearl |
the only caveat to leaving the belts off is that the battery will eventually drop in voltage. you can leave all the covers and AC belt off for troubleshooting, but you may wanna check the condition of the battery on occaison.
I don't know about the interchangability of crank sensors. Check all wiring connections, all fuses, and all grounds. Try cleaning up the grounds just to be safe. |
03-29-2010, 10:50 PM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 241045
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Hanahan, SC
Vehicle:1996 Legacy Outback green |
update
So I got *MY* compression gauge and checked the compression on a 1998 outback, and got a reading of about 160lbs. I rechecked the compression on my 1996 outback and got a reading of about 120 lbs.
I rechecked again with my friends gauge, and the readings also show a difference of 35 to 40 psi between the two vehicles (though the absolute values were different). Which leads me to believe the valves are bent on my 96 outback. Which makes sense, I reckon, since the timing belt was shredded/melted/disengaged. I bought a set of junkyard heads off a car with a blown head gasket on the left side, and I guess I will swap them off with mine. Any suggestions/warnings? |
03-31-2010, 02:32 AM | #6 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 241045
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Hanahan, SC
Vehicle:1996 Legacy Outback green |
Pulled the heads
So, having exhausted what I considered all other possibilities (sensors, spark, fuel, grounds, etc.) and finding the compression on the order of 40 psi low, I pulled the heads today.
They look fine to me. Poured gasoline into heads behind valves and had no leakage. Valves seem to operate properly. Heads had been apart before; someone had marked cam retainers. Seems to me that if the valves were bent they would show it in some way. Seat improperly or not open smoothly/easily. Perhpaps the head gaskets just blown causing my compression loss? Cylinders look fine, no straight up and down marks as if bad/broken rings. I can see 'cross hatching'. I don't know if it's factory or if the block has been rebuilt. any ideas? |
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