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11-03-2009, 02:00 AM | #1 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
Road Tune: 2.5L + FP Green (interesting differences in tuning strategies)
Event: Road Dyno
Location: Ridgecrest, CA Ambient Temp: 55* Elevation: 2700 ft Weather: dry and mildly cold Track and Conditions: CA 178 Tires: bridgestone RE01's Car: 2006 STi Tuner: Phatron Dyno Info: Airboy Peak HP at RPM: 378 whp @ 5930 rpm Peak Torque at RPM: 386 wtq @ 4730 rpm Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 179 whp / 235 tq (sti) Target Boost: 26 psi target in rom, 24 psi target after altitude correction Target AFR: Target 12:1 in rom, Actual 11:1 at redline. Due to dual meth. Fuel: 91 octane + VP M1 methanol Engine/Power Modifications: tbe, perrin headers, ur up-pipe with tial ext gate, fp green, tgv deletes, aquamist hfs5 dual meth, spearco tmic, hallman mbc+perrin ebcs, aps cai, aps inlet Driveline Modifications: act street clutch, gruppes flywheel Suspension Modifications: sti pink springs, beatrush engine tranny and pitchstop Other Modifications: Audio integrations sub box and amp rack. spec-c 12L meth tank, stri gauges, lc-1
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Last edited by Phatron; 06-29-2011 at 06:36 PM. |
11-03-2009, 02:11 AM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 129765
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Vehicle:2006 EVO 439whp/412wtq (MD) |
Just to be clear the only difference is 100% meth opposed to 50/50? Was there a significant ambient temp differential?
One thing that could explain this difference is your previous AFR. Paul (Yimi Sport) informed me that he liked to run 50/50 leaner at redline than 100%. We would have to ask him to chime in but my AFR's at Redline are north of 11.5 at redline with 50/50. |
11-03-2009, 02:19 AM | #3 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
the "old tune" log was done 2 days ago at the same time at night. the new one tonight. I just re-hooked up my hybrid boost control tonight, so that was a difference too.....old tune log was with a Hallman MBC only.
Something has to be screwy. The engine loads on the old log dont match up with the boost levels. Same boost, lower timing, same temperature, same road, yet the Loads are completely different. And my boost control got worse with the hybrid setup this time than with just the mbc. Im just dumbfounded and pissed off tonight. Im gonna throw the rest of the meth in my gas tank tomorrow and do some more logs Hopefully i'll be going to Famoso Raceway for test and tune saturday morning.....so i wanted to get some logs in and work out any bugs. |
11-03-2009, 02:27 AM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 89752
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: On the dyno at Yimi Sport
Vehicle:08 STI SWP |
Someone broke in to your car and swapped on a set of ported heads and some cams while you were asleep last night Ron... duh!
Seriously, pretty tough to explain what you logged. It would also be quite strange to be able to get past MTBT on just pump and meth. Ambient temp probably explains part of it but not all of it. Perhaps as crand002 mentioned, when you were running 50/50 meth/water you might have actually been pumping in too much. If there was too much water, that was displacing air-fuel as well as lowering cylinder temps too much. Now that you are basically on straight meth, all your injection volume is combustible. Add in some colder denser air and you have a recipe for more power. I usually run 50/50 meth/water cars around 11.8-12:1 AFR. The 100% meth cars I like around 11.5:1. Water has such a high latent heat of evaporation that you have to run it a bit leaner to avoid pulling too much heat out of the combustion chambers with the injection. |
11-03-2009, 02:29 AM | #5 |
*** Banned ***
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Location: Pennsyltucky
Vehicle:PMme 4 Speed Density Patches on OEM ECU |
Well, 7* is a big change, and if you were far past MBT, you'd be throwing off the VE, and thus airflow and load. Still, I'd bet there was something else going on, the meth, IAT's, not sure. Did you check all compensations?
Were those plots done with the same smoothing factor? I've found that just 1 point can make the same plot look like either of those two graphs. Last edited by Merp; 11-03-2009 at 02:34 AM. |
11-03-2009, 02:32 AM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 89752
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region:
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Location: On the dyno at Yimi Sport
Vehicle:08 STI SWP |
Oh and BTW, I believe the baseline numbers in Airboy are from an 06-07 WRX, not an STI.
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11-03-2009, 02:59 AM | #7 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
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Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
somethings wacky.....now i dont trust anything i did today.
I guess i'll just go out tomorrow and do back to back pulls and jack the timing back up on the 2nd one. My meth still isnt 100% meth now. I have the 12L tank and it was about 1/4 full still with a mixture of VP meth, meth i got from a friend, denatured alcohol, and water. The 3/4 i just added was 100% meth. Maybe i just found a good mix I only had 3 beers tonight....maybe that was my problem. Paul, are customers allowed to rent the dyno at yimi? If so how much is it an hour? |
11-03-2009, 03:25 AM | #8 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 89752
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: On the dyno at Yimi Sport
Vehicle:08 STI SWP |
Quote:
The dyno is available for hourly rentals. PM me or give me a call for rates. I'll even drive the car for you and give you really bad advice |
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11-03-2009, 03:30 AM | #9 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 89752
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region:
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Location: On the dyno at Yimi Sport
Vehicle:08 STI SWP |
I just looked at your timing graph a bit more closely. There is no way you were past MTBT on your old tune. Aside from the wacky peak at 4750 then dip after that timing is roughly right. The "new" tune is way low on midrange timing for a meth tune running the boost and fueling target that you have. The timing values on the logs from tonight look more like straight pump gas numbers.
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11-03-2009, 11:11 AM | #10 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
^^ that peak and dip is why all this started.
That is 1.4 FLKC in there. I havent tuned in so long i forgot that the FLKC doesnt zero out when you flash, it only does it when you reset the ecu. So i kept lowering the timing.....still knocking.....lowered again.....still knocking....i finally looked at the 4 logs and noticed it was FLKC and that it was the exact same on all 4 runs. So i reset the ecu and did the last pull. Quote:
Well, at least this makes me hopefull that i should pick up some more power adding that 4-7* back in the midrange. |
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11-03-2009, 11:17 AM | #11 |
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Location: St Paul, MN
Vehicle:2006 WRX |
What is the difference between intake temps between the two days tuning sessions?
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11-03-2009, 11:39 AM | #12 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
i can look at the logs when i get home, but iirc about 2*
old tune - 10-31-2009 between 10pm and midnight new - 11-2-2009 between 9pm and midnight it was in the mid 50's both times |
11-03-2009, 04:54 PM | #13 |
Scooby Specialist
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Vehicle:2005 STi 10.7 @ 125 FPRED PUMPGAS 93oct |
Hrmm...
I think you need to WOT log on both maps again.. |
11-03-2009, 10:48 PM | #14 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
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Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
Just did the logs literally 5 minutes apart.
Last edited by Phatron; 06-29-2011 at 06:38 PM. |
11-03-2009, 10:53 PM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 204644
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region:
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Location: THESHOPCT
Vehicle:2005 STi 10.7 @ 125 FPRED PUMPGAS 93oct |
which is which?
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11-03-2009, 10:58 PM | #16 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
sorry.... the higher midrange tq/hp on all 3 is the higher timing.
only difference between the two runs is the timing. Last edited by Phatron; 11-03-2009 at 11:04 PM. |
11-03-2009, 11:07 PM | #17 |
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Member#: 115558
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NY
Vehicle:2005 WRX Aspen White |
Was this all done on the same exact flat stretch of road?
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11-03-2009, 11:08 PM | #18 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
yes. i use the same road everytime. have for about 2 years.
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11-03-2009, 11:08 PM | #19 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 64908
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Location: Tuning 8/9sec Subies all over
Vehicle:10.8 XT+9.2@155 GR+ 9.1/157mph 2015 STI |
I hate timing... . .
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11-03-2009, 11:13 PM | #20 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
^^ im probably gonna take it out. car doesnt really feel different w/o it.
still need to put in my wg spring and put on my greddy bov. i want boost!!!! need atp35. anyone got 1 fo sale? |
11-03-2009, 11:15 PM | #21 |
Scooby Guru
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Location: Tuning 8/9sec Subies all over
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11-03-2009, 11:22 PM | #22 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 204644
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: THESHOPCT
Vehicle:2005 STi 10.7 @ 125 FPRED PUMPGAS 93oct |
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11-04-2009, 07:36 AM | #23 |
Scooby Specialist
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Very happy to see you coming out to play again Ron. Did you take your car add offline yet?
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11-04-2009, 09:17 AM | #24 |
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Nice Ron, bet she rips
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11-04-2009, 11:30 AM | #25 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:CEO PhatBottiTuning 2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth |
Quote:
i told him that i didnt even know if i'd take $28k (blue book +$3k) and i never heard back from him. i have over $3k in stereo equipment alone. too much money to just give away. i'd venture about $20k total into the car. im gonna search the classifieds for a Red, dom4 or atp35 for a couple months. then i'll be done. or start doin some suspension here and there |
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