Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-2013, 10:29 AM   #7076
02rex62
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 215004
Join Date: Jun 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Neenah WI
Vehicle:
02 Rex
I wanna go fast!!!!!

Default

^r these outta your car u just resently got back together?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
02rex62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 03-04-2013, 10:42 AM   #7077
06rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited Wag
9.8@150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02rex62 View Post
^r these outta your car u just resently got back together?
no they belong to a friend of mine, and I didn't tune it. Just trying to help him out. I think it was too much spark advance.
06rexwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #7078
Squidz
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 142608
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Cute fuzzy cuddly kitten hell.
Vehicle:
2003 Sonic Yellow
Marginally well behaved.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
You dont need the PCV if you have a good and properly working AOS
That isn't true. There are many AOS that are designed to work WITH the factory PCV valve. There are many that don't. You need the PCV valve if the system you are using requires it.

Quote:
What does this mean? The only incorrect part that I installed was the AOS you seem to think works so well!
Again, it doesn't mean anything. Sorry if you took it personally, it was not directed at you, nor is any of this...just having a conversation here. As i said before, i'm not trying to discount your experiences with any of these things...just trying to understand the differences as many of the problems people experience with AOS of all types is incorrect installation. As i stated, it could simply be a case of using a part that's not desinged for the application. I have no idea what it was in your case, and i'm not insinuating or implying anything other than i believe that an AOS would not create pressure in an otherwise functioning system.

Quote:
They are called Air Oil Seperators and if they don't separate the oil from the air that is routed towards the intake, which we use to vent the crankcase then it does not work period!! They have to do this fundamental function to be a working AOS!
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
Of course you'll get blow by from an AOS. it has a drain that returns warm vapor to the rear baffle.
^^ Agreed.

They don't remove 100% of the blowby from the system, nor will they ever separate 100% of the air and oil. No company has ever claimed that they will. People believe this is what they do and it's simply not true. The only way to completely eliminate it is to not return any of the vapor back to the system...such as a catch can. This is why all AOS will produce some 'sludge'...even though some produce less than others.

I think we just have to agree to disagree on this one. Was not trying to start an AOS war. What i would really like to know is if you guys think that the introduction of E85 changes the way the blowby behaves in the AOS?
Squidz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 07:15 PM   #7079
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

I know and I agree with most of what you say squidz and I do not want to beat the AOS thing into the ground.

Lets looks at it this way. If you have an AOS system that does not work well and like some of us on here feel the filler top units have inherent faults (they are too small and you're venting from the valve covers/ heads and expecting the AOS to drain the supposedly collected oil back into the same space) that which allow them to be overwhelmed by BB gases. So now you are pushing it hard creating blow by and crankcase air/ gas pressure, then you slow down or dial it back to cruising or slow down to idle. Now you have vacuum and the PCV kicks in and starts venting. It starts pulling the oil saturated gasses into the intake below the throttle body. We all know that's not good, oil in the intake lowers the octane level of the combustible gas which we all know.

I really believe that the stock PCV system was designed for stock power levels and emissions regulations. Once you are beyond those power levels then I believe there are way better options to vent crankcase gasses and its best to then rework the whole system.

I'm sure your motor is tight and working well so you are not realizing the limitations of the PCV systems you are using but eventually you will!
JMHO

Last edited by manitou; 03-04-2013 at 07:24 PM.
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 12:10 PM   #7080
climberd
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 183019
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Dallas, TX
Vehicle:
05 LGT Stg3 Wgn
Black

Default

Actually... Oil blowby lowering octane may just be another hearsay internet rumor that no one I've ever heard of can legitimately verify. If you step back and do not assume it is true, I would like to hear a case supporting it (seriously, I would like a non hearsay argument for it and against it).
climberd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 01:21 PM   #7081
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
You think that's what could have happened here?
Carrillo Pro H beam rods with under 3k miles on them, E98 fuel, low to mid 600whp uncorrected.
NOT MY CAR, NOT MY TUNE>
sure looks like it.
How much timing were you running at peak boost?
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 01:27 PM   #7082
06rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited Wag
9.8@150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
sure looks like it.
How much timing were you running at peak boost?
Not sure, not my tune and I haven't seen the map.
06rexwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 01:58 PM   #7083
stretchedk7
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 170602
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: j-ville fl
Vehicle:
06 Wrx RWD Auto
76MM-AEM-2200's

Default

you gotta be doing something to bend rods like that. excessive timing, maybe some hard hot laps....bad tank of fuel to much cylinder pressure from something!
stretchedk7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 02:11 PM   #7084
WRXt4cy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172698
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Moines, IA
Vehicle:
11 STi BW 8374 E85
02 v8 Spec C E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by climberd View Post
Actually... Oil blowby lowering octane may just be another hearsay internet rumor that no one I've ever heard of can legitimately verify. If you step back and do not assume it is true, I would like to hear a case supporting it (seriously, I would like a non hearsay argument for it and against it).
You're right, there isn't really any solid evidence out there but there is a good discussion in this thread with some very well thought out theories and some good facts. Post #60 sums up a few things that I think are important to consider.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1919252

Lower octane or not, I like the idea of keeping my inlet, turbo and intake as clean as possible and I like the idea of keeping any combustion byproducts out of my oil. For these reason, I use catch cans currently.
WRXt4cy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 02:40 PM   #7085
06rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited Wag
9.8@150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
you gotta be doing something to bend rods like that. excessive timing, maybe some hard hot laps....bad tank of fuel to much cylinder pressure from something!
E98 rules the fuel out. I want to see the timing map.
06rexwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 02:50 PM   #7086
stretchedk7
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 170602
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: j-ville fl
Vehicle:
06 Wrx RWD Auto
76MM-AEM-2200's

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post

E98 rules the fuel out. I want to see the timing map.
Sry scanned quickly!! Yeah but what about a watered down tank? I mean if it was on the edge timing wise and you got a bad tank I could see it then.
stretchedk7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 04:09 PM   #7087
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

What do you tuners on here say about oil in the intake tract? Does it lower octane rating on the AF mixture? Has this been proven?
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 04:11 PM   #7088
manitou
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:
2006 XTI Limited
OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP

Default

Ouch! That's got to be some bad pre-detonation to wrinkle a rod like that!
manitou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:07 PM   #7089
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

I doubt it was debt if he was running e98.
Remember those graphs of cylinder pressure? All he needed was too much timing and even without detonation the cylinder pressures would exceed the capacity of the rod. Ethanol burns quicker than fuel, so if he was aggressive on the timing he'd have an explosion occurring at a fast rate while he was still adding energy with compression as the piston moved upwards. Cylinder pressures at TDC and just after would be immense.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:07 PM   #7090
06rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited Wag
9.8@150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
I doubt it was debt if he was running e98.
Remember those graphs of cylinder pressure? All he needed was too much timing and even without detonation the cylinder pressures would exceed the capacity of the rod. Ethanol burns quicker than fuel, so if he was aggressive on the timing he'd have an explosion occurring at a fast rate while he was still adding energy with compression as the piston moved upwards. Cylinder pressures at TDC and just after would be immense.
I remember your graphs and agree with you.
06rexwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #7091
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

e85+ too much advance =



which means this



Totally sucks man to waste a nice Carillo Rod. Those rods are pretty darn sweet.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:32 PM   #7092
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

Here is a little fea on a connecting rod. This is supposed to be compression forces.




This one is what rpm does. Notice the direction of wrist pin flex (and how exaggerated it is)



I stole these from google images, but I recognize them as being relatively accurate.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:41 PM   #7093
WRXt4cy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 172698
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Moines, IA
Vehicle:
11 STi BW 8374 E85
02 v8 Spec C E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
E98 rules the fuel out. I want to see the timing map.
What was the rest of the setup to get the numbers you said it was making? How much torque was it making?

I would also be interested to know what the timing was like if you can find out.
WRXt4cy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:43 PM   #7094
06rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited Wag
9.8@150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
What was the rest of the setup to get the numbers you said it was making? How much torque was it making?

I would also be interested to know what the timing was like if you can find out.
~560-575 uncorrected on a dynojet.
06rexwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:58 PM   #7095
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

what do the bearings look like?
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 06:01 PM   #7096
BigRob74
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 305107
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:
2016 GT 5.OHH
DIB

Default

i am finally making my step up to e85 in a month. already made the appointment, not going for huge numbers, car only has a 3" DP, nameless 4" mufflers. adding FIC 1100s, DW65 fuel pump and having installed at my tuners shop. dont like the fact my current etune has my injectors 100%. do i need to add an intake, i hear the newer cars are good for 350whp but there are so many conflicts...
BigRob74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 06:26 PM   #7097
06rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited Wag
9.8@150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
what do the bearings look like?
Little beat but not horrible. Worse than I would expect from under 3k miles.
Only map he has. This is from the old e70 tune that spun a rod bearing and bent all the wrist pins at around 4k miles.
Timing was increased for the e98 tune but I don't know by how much. The aem has been sent back to get checked.



Idle timing is strange

Important to note that this is a hybrid engine with oem gasket and Cnc head chambers. Not sure of cr.

Last edited by 06rexwagon; 03-05-2013 at 06:43 PM.
06rexwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 06:57 PM   #7098
Maxwell Power
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 190729
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Marysville, WA
Default

wow.

There is your answer right there.

You bent all the wrist pins and your tuner thought it was a good idea to add more timing?

That timing curve is ridiculous. You should have 5-7 degrees less timing than you do in the 20.76psi area (at LEAST).

Last edited by Maxwell Power; 03-05-2013 at 07:05 PM.
Maxwell Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #7099
06rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 114730
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Limited Wag
9.8@150

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
wow.

There is your answer right there.

You bent all the wrist pins and your tuner thought it was a good idea to add more timing?

That timing curve is ridiculous. You should have 5-7 degrees less timing than you do in the 20.76psi area (at LEAST).
I don't know how much was added but it was a different engine and fuel this time. It did have a weird issue where it would misfire or break up at full boost pretty often.
06rexwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 07:17 PM   #7100
stretchedk7
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 170602
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: j-ville fl
Vehicle:
06 Wrx RWD Auto
76MM-AEM-2200's

Default

even from 14 psi on thats still alot of timing imo. rather make the power with boost then timing.
stretchedk7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Motion Lab Tuned: Juanmedina's 2007 WRX E85 ARMY Motion Lab Tuning Proven Power Bragging 125 04-12-2010 02:57 AM
jid2 Track Car - e85 ARMY jid2 Member's Car Gallery 38 01-22-2010 10:44 PM
The Honduran army is the bravest in the world... wrxcelent Off-Topic 36 07-07-2009 08:21 AM
Spacific E85 Tuning thread Here ? discopotato03 Engine Management & Tuning 1 09-09-2008 11:01 AM
Did anyone hear the one about the Italian army and the IRAQI satiation? Asinine Off-Topic 3 09-20-2005 07:06 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.