Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday April 2, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-27-2011, 09:49 AM   #1
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default broken pistion

i got a junk yard motor to use its a 2.2 any modifacitations i can do when its apart im going to rebuild the old motor to a decent n/a motor
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 10:04 AM   #2
XanRules
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 157348
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: OOoOuuUUUGGGHH!!!!!
Vehicle:
I Thlammed My
Penith in the Car Door

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmullin
i got a junk yard motor to use its a 2.2 any modifacitations i can do when its apart im going to rebuild the old motor to a decent n/a motor
Um, what exactly are you asking?
Please use proper spelling, punctuation and grammar.

Thanks.
XanRules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 02:26 PM   #3
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

ok i got a 97 impreza wagon with a 2.2 that has a broken pistion. so i got a 2.2 from a junk yard to use for the mean time. im planing to take the original motor apart and rebuild it so wat im asking is where can i find higher compression pistions and if theirs any (stock) camshafts that have a bigger lift than stock,and most important is some kind of engine management so i can adjust for the changes. or any othe supporting mods that you might see nessary
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 02:28 PM   #4
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

im sorry for my poor spelling and grammer
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 02:32 PM   #5
blk_wrx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 83125
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: SoCal
Vehicle:
2010 EV0 X
Wicked White

Default

Its not a simple job. I would recommend having an engine builder rebuild the engine. Do your homework on the builder and take no shortcuts. Spend the extra dough on a reputable builder.
blk_wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 03:34 PM   #6
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

Reassembling an NA Suby motor isn't really that challenging.

OP, as far as OE mixing and matching goes, you can use stock cams and the stock shortblock from a SOHC 2.5 engine, both of which will help make more power. I don't know of any aftermarket pistons for the 2.2 NA however. There's no simple EM solution either- piggybacks like a PP6 or a complete standalone are all you can do. On the plus side, using an EJ25 block and cams plus a header won't actually require any ECU changes- it'll run fine and safe and still make extra torque.
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 05:41 PM   #7
mike-tracy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 135290
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Puyallup, Washington
Vehicle:
2000 Impreza
BRP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAN SUVS View Post
....
Did 1997 Legacys get the phase II motors? If not, will his wiring harness work with phase II ej22 heads (to be able to use phase II ej25 cams you mentioned)?

Companies that make pistons (Wiseco, etc) can build pretty much any piston you give them specs for.
mike-tracy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 06:12 PM   #8
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-tracy View Post
Did 1997 Legacys get the phase II motors? If not, will his wiring harness work with phase II ej22 heads (to be able to use phase II ej25 cams you mentioned)?
He's got an Impreza, not a Legacy, and I was suggesting he keep his heads. However, you're right, he has Phase 1 head which eliminate the cam swap option. Delta does make regrinds for him though, at a reasonable cost.
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 07:08 PM   #9
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

people like to step to forced induction with the old 2.2L motors. I always questions trying to put a lot of money into a small motor. Forced induction matters less, but NA, displacement is king, and it's just weird putting money into a 2.2L just to make 2.5L power when you're done.
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 07:59 AM   #10
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

i would play with a turbo but im trying to make it into a show room stock to run rally cross. but i dont have a crazy budget i have 500 to invest into new peaces. so can i bore out the sleaves and use a 2.5 bottom end? leaving the top end alown.
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 12:43 PM   #11
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmullin View Post
i would play with a turbo but im trying to make it into a show room stock to run rally cross. but i dont have a crazy budget i have 500 to invest into new peaces. so can i bore out the sleaves and use a 2.5 bottom end? leaving the top end alown.
If it's a stock class, how is any of this legal?
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 03:44 PM   #12
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

it would look stock till they pull the motor and how i see it i would be going up aganst turbo cars so thats kinda unfair. nothing else would be modified ive raced short tracks with crazy vws and those rules were has to be stock drive train but with some oem mis matched parts you got a rocket ship
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 03:42 PM   #13
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

Yeah, if you mod it in any way away from stock, you're out of stock class anyways. The sad part is rally-x does not differentiate cars like auto-x. You will compete with stock WRXs and STIs in stock class anyways, same in prepared and modified. This pretty much means you're not winning anything anyways sitting at stock. You might as well mod in whatever way you want and create a car that you like to drive.

Now this isn't to say that a NA isn't competitive. One issue with turbo cars is that many people tend to drive them in a higher gear than they should. Few WRX owners drop back down to 1st when they should since the 5sp isn't happy about getting back into 1st while in motion (it works just fine, but people don't do the right actions to make it easy). STI owners have 2nd and 3rd gear to play with, and results are mixed. It really comes down to how people drive their cars and how well they stay in the power band, but most are bad at it and end up suffering greatly out of corners. Many also like to toss their cars around excessively and spin tires in the loose dirt, fun to look at but slow around the track. Lower power cars have less ability to do so and drivers have less tendency to dink around so much. Driving my bro's FXT, I can tack on a solid 5 seconds easy just by not using 1st when I should simply from dropping out of boost range through a lot of the corners. This creates a great advantage for the NA driver.

Remember, that's a driving issue, but one thing it does is let NA guys have a serious advantage on course. I've beaten many WRX and STI owners with my NA Forester not because my car is realistically faster but because I can make better use of the power I have. My bro's FXT is a solid 3 seconds faster than my NA Forester but I pretty much always beat him through consistency and better application of power. The beauty of rally-x is that it rewards good drivers. It's more about reading the course and taking good lines. It's about maximizing power output and never hitting cones. There's less emphasis on power and weight since the surface is loose and deformable.

Is stock class easier? Well...you do have a higher chance of new drivers in stock class which can make your life a little easier. However, some seasoned drivers will stay in stock class simply for the value (not tossing money into their daily driver). A lot of people do transition up the classes as they fiddle with their car and make them faster, so many times the people who have been doing it for a while will eventually step up to prepared and then modified. You just can't really count on it though.

All I can really suggest to you is just to have fun. Set the car up however you want and just enjoy yourself. I have a realistically PA level car I'm running in M4 due to specific parts I'm using on my car. I easily took 1st in PA most of the time. Even in M4, I almost always get a podium finish. I even took 2nd overall in M4 for my region this last year.

The car does play a big roll in how far you can go, but most of the influence is the driver. You have to be able to push the car to the limit and stay there throughout the run and every run. Get up to that first. Then you start looking at modifying the car as needed to make the car faster. If you don't, you will be more limited by your own driving than by the capability of the car. A fast car can only compensate a little bit for poor driving. If the difference between an OK driver and a great driver is 5 seconds, you need a car that's 5 seconds faster just to compete with the better driver. This is the kind of gap a STI and a base Impreza might have meaning a great driver in a base Impreza can likely beat an OK driver in a STI simply through driving prowess. In time the STI will be faster but only when the OK driver becomes a great driver.
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 03:52 PM   #14
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

the stuff i usto race the diffrence between a great driver and an ok driver would be .2seconds per lap
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 04:02 PM   #15
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

People aren't stupid. They drive the same car as you. There really isn't any trickery you can do that they wouldn't notice. Most people doing rally-x are Subaru owners. They know these cars very well including what mods can be done on the various engines. However, being a 2.2L you're still out powered by all the 2.5L motors anyways even if you mod yours, and you will still be competing against turboed cars. It's sort of a mute point.

The bigger issue is this, you have a 2.2L motor. Subaru has a lot of stock 2.5L cars that make significantly more power and as much power as a decently modded 2.2L motor. That's the biggest issue. The 2.2L motor doesn't really offer much outside of a block that people like to toss turbos on. If you want a rocket ship, rebuild and turbo the 2.2L or throw in a modded EG33. Both can get you up to STI power.
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2011, 01:44 PM   #16
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

anyone experanced with a 2.5 swap i read that its just rewire 2 sensors and use the 2.2 harness and ecm?
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2011, 01:45 PM   #17
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

if so im scraping this motor and getting the 2.5
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2011, 03:33 PM   #18
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

:facepalm:

You've made it clear you intend to use the information you're gathering to cheat in motorsports. So you're probably going to have to find a new source.
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2011, 09:56 PM   #19
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

It doesn't matter. The car simply won't be fast enough until it's modded enough to get into a higher class anyways. I have to drive the snot out of my car to compete. It's not that the car is faster than other people's (although I've made it better and better). It's that I push the hell out of the car as much as possible. At first, it's all about driving. You have to get very good at what you do to actually get the car up to its limit. Until you can get near 10/10ths, the car isn't the worry. Once you can bring the car to the limit and keep it there run after run, then after that point you start to realize how the car is limiting you and what you need to do to get faster and competitive.

I'm at that point and understand where my own car is limiting me. However, when I do build up my car, it will be forced induction or a big motor drop in (think EG33 with upgrades). I want at least 300hp and around the same torque to be at a point where I think the car has enough power to make full use of available grip on these surfaces with good tires without really leaving much on the table during the run. Max Johnson (never personally met or raced with) ran an H6 in his Impreza and got a #2 national finish this year. Frankly, I think 400hp could be functional during even a small portion of the run, but that would be incredibly infrequent given the straights are too short to get into taller gears. At the same time I will gut the whole car because weight is an issue for cornering speed. Even though the surface is deformable and less important than if on asphalt, there is a certain amount of effort the tires are doing holding the line around the corner. This kind of build could beat any local car here and can be good enough to do nationals competitively, although I am not at a point in my life to travel for that.

I do have the benefit of racing locally with some of the top drivers in the nation like Mark Uteckt who was 2008 M4 winner and Brent Carlson the 2008 PA winner and see at least once during the year some other drivers like Ken Cashion who was #2 in M4 in 2009 and #1 in M2 in 2010. I had the pleasure to meet Ken and his son in 2009. My lowly NA Forester was no match for his Evo on gravel tires, lol.



As for a motor change, I'm not sure if that throws you right into M4, but it probably does (too lazy to look at the rule book). That's not a bad thing really because it gives you the freedom to do anything you want to the car. Just have fun and build as you please. Maybe this isn't what you seek. I don't know. My only real suggestions are stay stock and run stock if that's what you want. Push the car as best you can and see what happens during the year. The other option is to mod the car as you please to make the car what you want it to be, irrelevant of what class you move into. Have fun building the car and have fun driving the car. Just keep building, driving, and getting faster.
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2011, 01:55 PM   #20
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

no wasent going to cheat i was going to use all oem parts and use the ej22 block with ej25 pistions i was simply asking if they would work but now im looking to do a ej25 swap i know that yea it might not be wat motor came in it and it most likley would get me out of the stock class and into a faster class... and racing experance goes ive raced go-carts and some road runners
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2011, 02:39 PM   #21
XanRules
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 157348
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: OOoOuuUUUGGGHH!!!!!
Vehicle:
I Thlammed My
Penith in the Car Door

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmullin View Post
no wasent going to cheat i was going to use all oem parts and use the ej22 block with ej25 pistions i was simply asking if they would work but now im looking to do a ej25 swap i know that yea it might not be wat motor came in it and it most likley would get me out of the stock class and into a faster class... and racing experance goes ive raced go-carts and some road runners
okay, so you have no Rally-X or professional/semi-professional/sanctioned motorsports experience at all.
XanRules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2011, 02:43 PM   #22
XanRules
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 157348
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: OOoOuuUUUGGGHH!!!!!
Vehicle:
I Thlammed My
Penith in the Car Door

Default

have you done any reading or research at all?
XanRules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2011, 05:59 PM   #23
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

no thats y im asking you for answers and racing experance is go-carts ive raced with the likes of dj shaw and tj laro in wka unrestricted champ karts. but lets get off of this subject and back to wats needed to be done to swap in a 2.5. when i regester for my first race ill let them tech me
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2011, 06:41 PM   #24
BAN SUVS
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28685
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Reno, Nevada
Vehicle:
2004 FXT 4EAT
very STi'd

Default

Read the High Compression Frankenstein thread- the whole thing. Most of what you need to know is in there and once you understand all that, you'll be able to ask more specific questions that we can answer.

You'll find that the experienced tech minds on this forum are more than glad to answer specific questions and dole out advice in small chunks- but nobody wants to write you a novel-length post on something as broad as the NA engine compatibilities, especially when it's all been answered before by those same people.
BAN SUVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2011, 07:17 PM   #25
gmullin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271800
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

ok so now my gf hates me i just read all 14 pages of it now wat sensors would i have to exchange just to get a sohc 2.5 running or would it just be plug and play
gmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pistion/Cams Installation chimp82x Subaru Conversions 3 12-08-2005 11:28 AM
Pistion rings LVSUBARU Subaru Conversions 3 09-14-2005 11:34 PM
apexi guage, sti pistion shift knob, 5lb bottle takumi Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 0 03-21-2005 04:08 PM
Want to use 2.5 single over head pistions in a 2.5 dual over head cam motor. harvcharg Subaru Conversions 8 01-19-2005 02:26 PM
pistions and rods? jeff22 Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 15 07-24-2002 12:57 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.