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03-28-2011, 09:09 AM | #1 |
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Five-0 motorsport Injectors tuning thread
I figured I would make this thread here instead of the car part review.
Basically Phatbotti tuning and CamTuning have been tuning these injectors on different cars with different issues. some success, some challenges. My car Phatron of Phatbotti tuning is working on tuning at the moment. I installed the 1400cc Densos from Five-0 and have misfiring on cylinder #4 at idle. Cam of CamTuning suggested to log pulse width at idle. He has the 2000s and had to go above .8 to get them to idle correctly. I took a few screen shots from this morning. 2 at idle showing the misfire with .5425; and 1 at a normal throttle level with no misfires and the reading of 1.2995 so here are the screen shots and Ron and Cam and whoever can give insight to issues. I am still unsure about #4 injector. I think it might be dumping fuel at idle as its the only one with consistant misfires. By mattpersman at 2011-03-28 By mattpersman at 2011-03-28 By mattpersman at 2011-03-28
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03-28-2011, 09:09 AM | #2 |
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03-28-2011, 09:10 AM | #3 |
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Guys feel free to add to or post up tuning solutions, problems, questions about these Five-0 injectors. Thanks to Phatbotti and CamTuning
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03-28-2011, 10:11 AM | #4 |
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I started doing some non idle tuning on my 2000's today. I had a misfire on 2, 3 and 4, but mostly 4 when I had it idling leaner. After my drive to work today I let it idle for a minute and could feel it misfiring even though it was rich (4 byte pulsewidth ~.83). Now cylinder #1 was misfiring. I'm going to work on my MAF scaling for a bit and see if it gets any better but my fuel economy is going to be junk running 12.5-12.8:1 in closed loop. This is on E85 so I probably won't ever be able to get these to run well on 91.
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03-28-2011, 10:43 AM | #5 |
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mine is on 93 right now just trying to get these dialed in, I was wondering if e85 would increase the pulse width?
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03-28-2011, 11:19 AM | #6 |
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03-28-2011, 12:31 PM | #7 |
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Yeah...moving straight to e85 would increase the IPW but i think they may be a bad move.
You should really swap that injector to another cylinder and see if the msifires follow it. Switching to e85 might mask a bad injector..... |
03-28-2011, 12:33 PM | #8 |
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03-28-2011, 12:39 PM | #9 |
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Same with this phatbotti... Some 1200/1400/1600 are a pleasure to tune. I have one car that runs perfect with a built 35r setup but will throw 52 misfires in 4 and up to 12 in 1-3. Played with it for hours.
Other cases are @ 1.5 maf volts the correction swings from -25 to + 25. On some cars, dialing the injectors takes 10 minutes. Cant really make any correlations other than the fact that they seem to be hit or miss. |
03-28-2011, 01:01 PM | #10 | |
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03-28-2011, 01:14 PM | #11 |
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heres matt's injector tab...you can see below 0.8ms it just drops like a rock.
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03-28-2011, 02:35 PM | #12 |
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I just got off the phone with Tony at T1 Race Development (the folks who sell the ID's) and he said you cant really expect these large injectors to run fine and never misfire.
He said they do great considering what they are...a huge azz injector on a small litre motor trying to idle at 900rpm, but that you cant expect miracles and expect them to never misfire or idle like injectors half the size. So, the options seem to be....raise the idle and switch to e85 to get the IPW up......as for pump gas....it doesnt seem promising...the only thing i can think of is to run them like cam did and have them idling at 12.5:1 Bumping up the fuel pressure would probably help too. |
03-28-2011, 03:00 PM | #13 |
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I could see how bumping up the fuel pressure would help with the spray pattern at low IPW, however bumping up the fuel pressure also means lowering the IPW even further, which I think might cause more problems than it helps.
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03-28-2011, 03:31 PM | #14 |
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I talked to Bruce from 5.0 today on the phone and he told me he would send me a new set once I gave him the tracking number for the set I have returning in the mail. I wanted just one injector and even offered to buy it for now till he got the 1 bad one back and he claimed that is a bad idea and he would not do it cause the injectors are "matched". I am not an injector scientist but I am a professional automotive and diesel technician and that does not seem right to me. swapping 4 injectors back to my DW750s then putting 4 more 1400s later instead of a simple 1 injector swap. at least he offered a new set with no hesitation.
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03-28-2011, 03:35 PM | #15 | |
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03-28-2011, 03:37 PM | #16 | |
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03-28-2011, 03:45 PM | #17 | |
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with e85 the IPW at 14.7 should be higher than what it is at 12.5 on pump gas. Hopefully this will solve the issue.... If you're not planning on e85 we will probably have to do cam's trick with the 02 sensor scaling, but that is gonna destroy any gas mileage. |
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03-28-2011, 04:00 PM | #18 | |
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I imagine this sorting/matching is done at the manufacturing facility rather than in Five-O's office, so if you just sent back one injector, he would have to search through all of the other sets he has on hand to find a set that was close, and send you one of those. If he doesn't keep a huge inventory in-stock, it might take weeks or months before a set finally came along that was close enough for you to use. It would make much more sense to just send you a new complete set instead of going through that process (and possibly making you wait weeks or months before a compatible set came along). |
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03-28-2011, 09:30 PM | #19 |
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ok so I put the DW750s back in and its happy again. I really am not a fan of working on my own cars since I do it for 9-10 hours a day 5-6 days a week. here is a screen shot proof bad injector
Uploaded with ImageShack.us don't get me wrong I have put junk "reman" Cummins CRD injectors in trucks and it makes ya second guess yourself cause it's supposed to be good then you gotta pull it all apart again. I waited quite some time before I bit the bullet and bought injectors and the DW pump to switch to E85 and then this happens. makes you want to just keep a low power 93 octane on small injectors. |
03-29-2011, 12:01 AM | #20 |
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Ok, got my issue fixed thanks to Cameron and Ron
Idling around 12.5...had to bump up latency misfires are almost gone. Get a little from inj #2, but it looks like a little bit of fuel is leaking Will check on that tomorrow. btw, ID2000 |
03-29-2011, 12:14 AM | #21 |
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Jakes car is idling at 12.5-12.8 pretty consistent
i did the 02 sensor scale "hack".....multiplied the whole table by 15% should be on e85 tomorrow....so hopefully it will work out normally without these shenanigans. |
03-29-2011, 06:10 AM | #22 |
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I understand I am try to put 2x the injector in the car over what I have now, I just want a set that does not have a bum injector that misfires non stop at stop lights. if i have 4 good injectors and a random 1 or 2 misfires thats cool I understand that, that is ALOT of fuel for a 2.5 engine at 800 Rpm idle. I would also be willing to try a Kenne Bell Boost A Spark to see if adding spark power would clean up the low end, if it doesn't, it doesn't.
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03-29-2011, 09:08 AM | #23 | |
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Last edited by 2gnt2wrx; 03-29-2011 at 10:28 AM. |
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03-29-2011, 09:38 AM | #24 |
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Interesting. Im swapping the FiveO 1200cc EV14 topfeeds in my car with a DW fuelpump, Aeromotive FuelRails, Fuel Lab FPR. "40psi base pressure" Maf wise Im running a KSTech 83mm CAI "Perrin fmic/APS turbo inlet style"
First it will be on 93oct, then a E85 tune... Last edited by rexworx; 03-29-2011 at 10:10 AM. |
03-29-2011, 11:22 AM | #25 |
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^^ thats gonna be fun on a 16bit car.....you're gonna end up with a scalar of like 200cc
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