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Old 02-01-2013, 11:01 AM   #251
WRXHillClimb
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Oh yeah! Lets take supposedly a pure bred sports car and ruin it by making a heavier, uglier, worse performing and handling version! I wonder if this will push it to the 30k mark, and then we can see an apples to apples comparo of s2000 back in the day to ft-86 now . You know where my money is.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:10 AM   #252
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You can't be sure how much this will really effect performance. It seems a somewhat logical step to have a roadster version of this car. The Miata and S2000 have no issues with driving dynamics with their open tops, so maybe this will be fine. Some would say the focused, open-top roadster experience is the definition of "pure-bred sports car". I would have thought you might agree with that and be somewhat intrigued by this upcoming offering...?

And, just to add, if I could have one car as a second vehicle (as I need a somewhat practical vehicle for DD'ing and for my family), it would absolutely be a 2003 AP1 S2000.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:28 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by SilverSubaab View Post
The Miata and S2000 have no issues with driving dynamics with their open tops, so maybe this will be fine.
Both cars benefit greatly from additional chassis bracing.. particularly a roll cage. I wouldn't say "no issues".. but they certainly have fewer than something like a Chrysler Sebring or Mustang/Camaro convertible.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:29 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
You know where my money is.
Yep, keeping your 8 year old S2000 running. and that $30k car in 2005 would cost $42k today.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:32 PM   #255
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The 86 was allegedly designed with a convertible in mind; the bracing requisite for a convertible should already be in place.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:05 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
The 86 was allegedly designed with a convertible in mind; the bracing requisite for a convertible should already be in place.
More likely it means it's just easier to add.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:07 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Both cars benefit greatly from additional chassis bracing.. particularly a roll cage.
What car doesn't? Nevermind the fact that roll cage means no more street driving. The S2000 is pretty darn still. Plenty stiff to achieve what would be considered excellent handling dynamics on street tires. It has minimal cowl shake, etc.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:09 PM   #258
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Yep, keeping your 8 year old S2000 running. and that $30k car in 2005 would cost $42k today.
He doesn't live in our world. He lives in a world of go-kart racing and monopoly money.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:15 PM   #259
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That's what the frame looks like. They are obviously going to have to change some things to make it into a convertible.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:03 PM   #260
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I don't think the convertible will have a usable trunk with the top down. They should make it a 2-seater.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #261
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Granted, I don't have much time behind the wheel of a NC miata, the NB and NA miatas are fairly flexible when pushed hard. Even a simple 4-point roll hoop can dramatically reduce chassis flex. Cowl shake isn't bad, but it's still there. I love miatas.. but I hate that they're convertibles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwx View Post


That's what the frame looks like. They are obviously going to have to change some things to make it into a convertible.
As was already mentioned.. the car was originally designed to be a drop-top. That big brace between the rear seats probably provides a significant boost to bending rigidity that the normal Impreza chassis it's based on doesn't have.. also, the center tunnel and side rails are supposed to be further reinforced over the Impreza.

If Subaru sells a BRZ version it will be the first new USDM Subaru without the classic ring-shaped reinforcement frame since 1991.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:28 PM   #262
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Yep, keeping your 8 year old S2000 running. and that $30k car in 2005 would cost $42k today.
Every ****ing time someone brings in a direct account for inflation. It's getting old.

I'm gonna go ahead and just re-post my comment from another thread here:

Quote:
Why does everyone try to adjust for inflation and always forget to adjust the value of how specs in the past would force the car to have to be the same value or LOWER now due to advances in technology and the current competitive numbers of the market segments...

I wouldn't pay more than $20k for a 140hp mid engined small car now, no matter how hot it LOOKED.

You ALWAYS have to include increases in technology when considering the price of a modern-day version of an old car if you're going to keep the specs the same as the old car.

Case and point: The new BASE civic is better equipped than the 1996 EX (the $16000 THEN one). It has better power, better mileage, and better amenities, more room, better materials and looks, etc. Yet the new base is only $1000 more? Adjust that for inflation and tell me what you get and how it makes sense.

Inflation for $16000 1996 to now: $22641. Equivalent value of $18000 now back then: $12707.
As you can see, cars lose their competitiveness as technology improves. The ones that come to mind now are more composites and the big kicker: DI.

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Old 02-01-2013, 03:52 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
He doesn't live in our world. He lives in a world of go-kart racing and monopoly money.
You live in a world where apparently technological advances and cost savings therein don't far surpass the rate of our real inflation.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:18 PM   #264
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[self quote]
If that were true Jeep Wranglers would be $8,000 each.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:47 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
If that were true Jeep Wranglers would be $8,000 each.
The statistics I provided for the value of the civic are facts, as well as the inflation numbers. I guess what I'm really after is that you have to asses the competitiveness of the older car's stats for its intended market.

The newer civic gets better mpg, has a nicer interior, and inflation adjusted is barely more expensive than what an older one would have cost if it was sold brand new today (or rather in 2011 which bodes even BETTER for my argument since that's when the calculator stops yet I took a 2012 civic price tag when that post was made).

Edit: also, fanboyism ruins all competitiveness. If people will always buy apple regardless of how competitive it is in terms of performance, and will pay more, it obviously ruins the argument.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:53 PM   #266
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You know, if you clicked on the #2 search result on google, that one goes to 2012.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:56 PM   #267
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Cool, so tack on an additional $1000 to the 1996 civic purchased new now price tag. Yeah, that car would be a winner in the market!

Also, thanks for that, I don't usually bother looking much past the 1st result if it's what I'm looking for
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:59 PM   #268
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I've used inflation calculators throughout much of 2012 so I always remembered to click on the second one haha
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #269
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WRXHillClimb, my question is why do you always compare the BRZ/FRS to the S2000? You are right about the fanbois though and through your avid defense of the S2000 you give us a great example.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:37 AM   #270
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I simply do it because the engine is close to the same displacement and they probably intentionally left the brz gimped so when they come out with a more powerful version it's more appealing and I hate that **** with a passion. The s2000 was IT until the CR which was a special edition and salute to the discontinuation. It had the same power just different other bits (as well as some cool options for no radio and AC.. oh how I wish more cars..). One trim level, one awesome package.

The wrx & sti make sense to me because they come from an econo box, but the ft-86 is specifically a sports car, and its either a weak one and will stay that way or they duped the 3k people who bought one for more funding to come out with the REAL sports car midway through the life.

I also didn't ever follow car hype of the s2000, so maybe I just didn't have an opportunity to get as butt-hurt watching as tons of hype was spewed from the devil marketers and then see the actual production and get disappointed.

I use the s2k because it's what I own, however you could throw any number of cars into there like I have before and see there are just more competitive cars out there, regardless of looks or actual layout.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:38 AM   #271
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Why do you drive an underpowered piece of **** like the s2000 when you can have real Mustang 5.0 power for the upper $20k region? A nearest-to-new S2000 cost the same money.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:19 PM   #272
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Why do you drive an underpowered piece of **** like the s2000 when you can have real Mustang 5.0 power for the upper $20k region? A nearest-to-new S2000 cost the same money.
wow, slow down on the hate-orade. i have a 2006 s2000. have you driven a s2000 before? it is just something else. i have no words to explain it, honestly. between road rally, track autox. i have never driven something like it. sure there are tons and tons of cars faster, 370z, lotus, mustang, m3, c63, etc. i have driven those cars too. they are quite impressive. the 5.0 mustang is a beast of power for the money. for an upper 20 k car there is not alot to compete with it for the price. there is just something to the feel and drive of the car. i wouldn't say it it under power, but it is just right for it in terms of balance. a mx-5 is under power, and the z4 m is over power. if i had never sat inside of the s2000 i would have probably bought a lotus as a fun toy. 370z and the mustang both have considerable power but it just does feel settle in a corner. they might be alot faster on a track than a s2000 but it is just the way it feels.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #273
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Hillclimb was supposed to take the trollbait.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:44 PM   #274
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i see.
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Old 02-02-2013, 06:50 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
The 86 was allegedly designed with a convertible in mind; the bracing requisite for a convertible should already be in place.
This is what I heard through my sources. Even before it was released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
If Subaru sells a BRZ version it will be the first new USDM Subaru without the classic ring-shaped reinforcement frame since 1991.



That should read 2002.
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