Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Subaru Models > Impreza Forum

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-27-2013, 01:32 PM   #5176
G2Spfld
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 354284
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Midwest
Vehicle:
2013 Imp Sport CVT
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
It could work nicely in series with the heater core return line. There are several places on the engine to get pressurized oil from. A restrictor would be necessary to avoid starving the engine. Returning the oil is a bit more difficult. The advantage here would be control of the intake temperature by varying oil flow.
I assume, hypothetically the air coming thru it would be close to the air temp inside car with heater full on? Of course there is the cfm of blower fan vs intake charge cfm differential, but from that perspective it would surely heat air sufficiently. The rub will come in, with the time it takes to warm up the coolant, vs just Pulling heat from engine. This would only be at startup, and prob would be a non issue as coolant warms up plenty quickly.

Or, just the simple hose from air box to hot area that's been shown to have positive results. Maybe overthinking it, but I do agree if it is an issue keeping cool air out of hose, the atw Intercooler would also be a very viable option to control the warm air. I actually think my atw is too big to fit in this engine bay anyway. A small one would work tho
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
G2Spfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 12-27-2013, 01:49 PM   #5177
Commander Keen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 319157
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza 4DR 5MT

Default

The I/C would probably extract more heat from the coolant than the heater core due to its size.

Except for the added thermal mass, I don't expect a noticeably longer warm-up. The heat is drawn back into the engine after all.
Commander Keen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #5178
G2Spfld
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 354284
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Midwest
Vehicle:
2013 Imp Sport CVT
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
The I/C would probably extract more heat from the coolant than the heater core due to its size. Except for the added thermal mass, I don't expect a noticeably longer warm-up. The heat is drawn back into the engine after all.
That's true, never considered that. Thats why your an engineer ( I think anyway) and I'm not. I'm just a business guy. The technical stuff you guys can explain to me ;-)
G2Spfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:05 PM   #5179
Commander Keen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 319157
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza 4DR 5MT

Default

Another thing...

Our engines have EGR, so in part-throttle cruising, it's likely that a fair amount of the intake charge is 300F+ exhaust gas.

This won't show up at the OBD port since the IAT sensor is integrated with the MAF. You'd probably have to install an IAT sensor in the intake manifold to monitor this.
Commander Keen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #5180
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
Another thing...

Our engines have EGR, so in part-throttle cruising, it's likely that a fair amount of the intake charge is 300F+ exhaust gas.

This won't show up at the OBD port since the IAT sensor is integrated with the MAF. You'd probably have to install an IAT sensor in the intake manifold to monitor this.
i think with the more expensive subaru specific scanners you can see this. Torque might support it, i know i saw the sensor green at one point, but i haven't looked recently, will look tonight
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 02:39 PM   #5181
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

intake location. i can actually push it down a bit further if i need too, it looks like it should be blocked from the pics, but if you go look under your hood you will see it is actually open to the back of the engine from here





yesterday morning



here is yesterday afternoon after moving the hose in further, as you can see the fuel flow has dropped by nearly 20%afternoon,!!!! no real changes in weather conditions



last night on the way home. no real changes again




so far it seems to work Ignore MAF readings, they are beta and definitely don't work correctly in cfm mode
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 10:08 PM   #5182
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

BAM! 29.13 MPG average with this intake setup!!! not quite summertime highway, but summertime average!!!! the 2nd to last fillup was with the scoop for the CAI removed and my first testing with the hose setup. last fillup is 100% with how the pics are now posted. this was 91e0, but only because I was filling my gas tank for the snowblower too. Real test will come on sunday

flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 10:14 PM   #5183
averagewhiteboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 345877
Join Date: Feb 2013
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Sport
Ice Silver

Default

FlyBoy, where are you located? I know driving conditions such as grades and whatnot do contribute too. Here in the Pittsburgh area, we have lots of hills, so our city mileage is generally worse than if you're somewhere flat too. On my first fill up with 93, I'm hovering right about 29 with average speed being 43 on the on-board reading. It's been between 20-40 on average for this fillup. I wasn't trying the 93 for any potential mileage increases, but to my surprise, it's still right about the same if not a touch better than on 87. Interested to see a few more fills.. CVT here.
averagewhiteboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 10:32 PM   #5184
G2Spfld
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 354284
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Midwest
Vehicle:
2013 Imp Sport CVT
SWP

Default

Wow, you put it in a graph, and you can feel the wallet getting thicker!!! That's an impressive mod!!
G2Spfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 10:40 PM   #5185
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by averagewhiteboy View Post
FlyBoy, where are you located? I know driving conditions such as grades and whatnot do contribute too. Here in the Pittsburgh area, we have lots of hills, so our city mileage is generally worse than if you're somewhere flat too. On my first fill up with 93, I'm hovering right about 29 with average speed being 43 on the on-board reading. It's been between 20-40 on average for this fillup. I wasn't trying the 93 for any potential mileage increases, but to my surprise, it's still right about the same if not a touch better than on 87. Interested to see a few more fills.. CVT here.
Eastern ND, it's flaaaat here, I live dead center between the 2 largest cities on this side of the state, so I do a lot of highway miles, usually 70/30 spilt. In my past testing 91 was <5% better and not worth the extra 10% cost. But I was at the pump filing up my 2.5 gallon tank and didn't want to run my card again plus risk getting ethanol in there, so I just filled the car with 91.

The whole tank wasn't e0 so e10 numbers should be close, either way like I said it was like 3% difference so 28.3?. Sunday-wednesday next week no forecast highs warmer than -10F. Eff me, but should be a good test for this setup.
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 10:40 PM   #5186
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post
Wow, you put it in a graph, and you can feel the wallet getting thicker!!! That's an impressive mod!!
I didn't, fuelly did
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 10:56 PM   #5187
averagewhiteboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 345877
Join Date: Feb 2013
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Sport
Ice Silver

Default

The car does "seem" to run a little smoother on premium though.. Maybe it's just mind game witchcraft though.. haha I've always had cars that ran 93, so the extra cost doesn't really bother me. I'd rather pay the little extra and the car run top notch.
averagewhiteboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 11:36 PM   #5188
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by averagewhiteboy View Post
The car does "seem" to run a little smoother on premium though.. Maybe it's just mind game witchcraft though.. haha I've always had cars that ran 93, so the extra cost doesn't really bother me. I'd rather pay the little extra and the car run top notch.
It is really a waste of money though. I haven't quite figured out the timing advance on this car, sometimes it is 30 degrees at cruise, sometimes it is like 21, same fuel and weather conditions
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 11:52 PM   #5189
G2Spfld
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 354284
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Midwest
Vehicle:
2013 Imp Sport CVT
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
It is really a waste of money though. I haven't quite figured out the timing advance on this car, sometimes it is 30 degrees at cruise, sometimes it is like 21, same fuel and weather conditions
Read this : http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php?topic=4115.0 I understand this is not an E85 vehicle ( I do not like ethanol btw)- it has some interesting information in it. It might be possible the winter blends cause the car to lean out a little so it pulls timing here and there, idk. We had an engine built for E85, and on dyno the tuner kept adding timing waiting for it to detonate, and lifted a head with ARP L19 head bolts. I learned ( was new to E85 back then-as everybody else was too) ethanol will not detonate. But the car may remove timing if its running a rich blend. Id be curious to see if it pulls timing as much running NoE!

Last edited by G2Spfld; 12-28-2013 at 12:08 AM.
G2Spfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2013, 11:57 PM   #5190
Tha Chakal
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 372100
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D.C.
Vehicle:
2013 Premium 5dr CVT
DGM

Default

Should I be actively avoiding e10?
Tha Chakal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 12:03 AM   #5191
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Chakal View Post
Should I be actively avoiding e10?
I tried until it wasn't a financial option, ie I used to be able to get 87e0 and my car loved it!
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 12:14 AM   #5192
Tha Chakal
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 372100
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D.C.
Vehicle:
2013 Premium 5dr CVT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post

I tried until it wasn't a financial option, ie I used to be able to get 87e0 and my car loved it!
So, get it when I see it, but don't go too far out of the way, because it's not worth it?
Tha Chakal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 12:19 AM   #5193
G2Spfld
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 354284
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Midwest
Vehicle:
2013 Imp Sport CVT
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Chakal View Post
So, get it when I see it, but don't go too far out of the way, because it's not worth it?
If you have it available get it, I mean..... Not to give "sour advice" or anything. ;-) but if I had access to 87NoE, I'd have it delivered in 50 gallon drums like race fuel ( 45-48 gallons actually to allow for expansion in the case trolls show up to chastise me on buying race fuel :-)

I just prefer not having ethanol in a non flex fuel vehicle. Whether it'll hurt it or not, I dislike it!
G2Spfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 12:26 AM   #5194
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha Chakal View Post

So, get it when I see it, but don't go too far out of the way, because it's not worth it?
Definitely!
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 01:04 AM   #5195
Tha Chakal
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 372100
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: D.C.
Vehicle:
2013 Premium 5dr CVT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post
If you have it available get it, I mean..... Not to give "sour advice" or anything. ;-) but if I had access to 87NoE, I'd have it delivered in 50 gallon drums like race fuel ( 45-48 gallons actually to allow for expansion in the case trolls show up to chastise me on buying race fuel :-)

I just prefer not having ethanol in a non flex fuel vehicle. Whether it'll hurt it or not, I dislike it!
Damn n00b...

I'll keep an eye out, thanks guys!
Tha Chakal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 02:39 AM   #5196
Commander Keen
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 319157
Join Date: May 2012
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza 4DR 5MT

Default

Quote:
We had an engine built for E85, and on dyno the tuner kept adding timing waiting for it to detonate, and lifted a head with ARP L19 head bolts. I learned ( was new to E85 back then-as everybody else was too) ethanol will not detonate.
Ethanol will detonate under enough compression, like any other fuel.
Commander Keen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 08:03 AM   #5197
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

So I was thinking about air density this morning on my way to work, obviously no way to change it, the numbers seem small but the difference between +80 and -10 is an increase of 17%. I suppose that would mean the resistance would also increase by 17% or is there more to it?

I should see about 20% better mpg I think, but instead of say 29 mpg I would see 24 when the temps go stupid again? Ouch, but I guess it is much better than the 18-20mpg I was seeing on the interstate. I might need to drive around town more to boost my mpg

Find out soon I guess :/
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 09:06 AM   #5198
G2Spfld
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 354284
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Midwest
Vehicle:
2013 Imp Sport CVT
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Keen View Post
Ethanol will detonate under enough compression, like any other fuel.
We were running about 9:1, not too high for boost. I think it was around 25 lb boost where it lifted. Just too much timing, they didn't know how to tune for E85 then. It was still new to that market. I had no idea either, that's why they were doing it.

Last edited by G2Spfld; 12-28-2013 at 09:39 AM.
G2Spfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 09:57 AM   #5199
G2Spfld
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 354284
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Midwest
Vehicle:
2013 Imp Sport CVT
SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
So I was thinking about air density this morning on my way to work, obviously no way to change it, the numbers seem small but the difference between +80 and -10 is an increase of 17%. I suppose that would mean the resistance would also increase by 17% or is there more to it? I should see about 20% better mpg I think, but instead of say 29 mpg I would see 24 when the temps go stupid again? Ouch, but I guess it is much better than the 18-20mpg I was seeing on the interstate. I might need to drive around town more to boost my mpg Find out soon I guess :/
Ambient Temperature
Air becomes more dense as temperatures drop, which increases air resistance. For every 10° F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2%. Thus, fuel efficiency will drop by 1%. Overall, fuel economy tends to be higher in the summer than the winter.

This was copied from an article I have from Cummins.
G2Spfld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 10:13 AM   #5200
flyboy1100
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 314216
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ND
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post

Ambient Temperature
Air becomes more dense as temperatures drop, which increases air resistance. For every 10° F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2%. Thus, fuel efficiency will drop by 1%. Overall, fuel economy tends to be higher in the summer than the winter.

This was copied from an article I have from Cummins.
7-10% hit would be better than 17-20%, but I'm not going to hold my breath
flyboy1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Impreza owner, low mpg? stuffedcabbage Newbies & FAQs 36 08-28-2017 07:10 AM
2012 Impreza Reviewed - Whytecliff to Seymour brendan_mac Vancouver Impreza Club Forum -- VIC 16 12-23-2011 01:12 PM
NJ Impreza owners - sighting Dan G General Forum Archive 76 10-06-2000 12:24 AM
Md or Va Impreza owners - I have an Impreza related question. Snoopy General Forum Archive 1 06-05-2000 08:08 AM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.