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Old 06-01-2013, 10:55 PM   #4326
jsteg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post

Very articulate.
I wasn't trying to be. I simply thought it was funny!
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:19 AM   #4327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post

Very articulate.
I would refrain from criticizing others "post grammar" if I were you. The typical modus operandi, if you don't like the response then attack the person. It's ok that you have your opinion, but its also ok when most others disagree with it.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:14 AM   #4328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2Spfld View Post
I would refrain from criticizing others "post grammar" if I were you. The typical modus operandi, if you don't like the response then attack the person. It's ok that you have your opinion, but its also ok when most others disagree with it.
I concur with that... it was my point exactly - a personal attack.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:28 AM   #4329
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Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post

I concur with that... it was my point exactly - a personal attack.
Dude all I did was laugh! Get over yourself, it wasn't a personal attack. You need some thicker skin bo!
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:28 PM   #4330
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The actual Impreza CVT mileage problem:

Quote:
Originally Posted by alymida View Post
I have just over 2000 miles on my 2013 Impreza Sport Limited that I bought a few months ago, and my regular average is 27mpg on a tank. I have a hard time keeping my foot out of it but I use the paddle shifters about 70% of the time. Not my first CVT, I upgraded from a Prius to my Sub hahaha.
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:33 PM   #4331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alymida View Post
I have just over 2000 miles on my 2013 Impreza Sport Limited that I bought a few months ago, and my regular average is 27mpg on a tank. I have a hard time keeping my foot out of it but I use the paddle shifters about 70% of the time. Not my first CVT, I upgraded from a Prius to my Sub hahaha.
Do you drive it the same way you drove your Prius? Use cruise control a lot?
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:36 PM   #4332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post

I concur with that... it was my point exactly - a personal attack.
Ok so it was a bit ad hominem.

I've never seen the CR data or the test protocol so it's all a bit subjective for me. I get good mpg in both city and highway. You get bad mpg from fast hilly driving. It seems a bit obvious to me what the problems are.

Can you share the CR data and test info? Maybe I'll be able to see your point then.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:24 PM   #4333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
Ok so it was a bit ad hominem.

I've never seen the CR data or the test protocol so it's all a bit subjective for me. I get good mpg in both city and highway. You get bad mpg from fast hilly driving. It seems a bit obvious to me what the problems are.

Can you share the CR data and test info? Maybe I'll be able to see your point then.
Well, the data are in the first post here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2477627

and the CR test procedure is at a constant 65 mph on a flat closed circuit of theirs. Since there is no acceleration/deceleration in their test, the mpg is pretty much as good as you can get at 65 mph. Again, it's "for comparison purposes only, your mileage may vary" so all this "well I get this or that mpg so you're right/wrong" is irrelevant. Everybody gets something different. The relevant thing is the difference between two controlled tests done by professionals. The surprising thing is that although there is a strong bias error of 6 mpg between the two tests, once that is taken away the random error is extremely small. In fact taking the other Subaru out of the list (justified due to the fact that the other vehicle being tested on the same equipment produced an outlier), the tightness of the other vehicles is incredible, as you can see in the above link.

Careful though - if you start thinking and talking (or typing) logically about this the hyenas will call you a troll!

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Old 06-03-2013, 01:50 AM   #4334
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I don't have a subscription to CR to view that link.

Just to be sure I understand what you're saying, your claims are that:
- CR did an unbiased test on an Impreza Sedan with CVT on a closed loop flat course at 65 MPH and got 35 MPG.
- The Impreza is EPA rated at 36 MPG.
- Other vehicles with significantly lower EPA ratings had roughly equal CR test results.
- The EPA rating for Impreza should be significantly lower based on the performance of other cars in CRs test.

So now my questions are these:
What were the CR ratings of competitive class cars like Mazda3, Corolla, Focus, Civic, and Elantra?
What were the CR ratings of other CVT equipped vehicles like Outback and Versa?
Are most vehicles simliarly efficient at 65MPH? And if so, is it the city efficiency that kills the EPA "highway" numbers for the cars with lower EPA ratings?
Why hasn't the government taken money away from owners of cars with UNDERESTIMATED EPA ratings and given it to the automakers since they've obviously been saving an enormous amount of money at the automakers expense (:stick in your eye: jk)?

I've been able to meet or exceed (by no more than 10%) EPA ratings at 65 mph across all cars I've owned without effort. My Impreza experience follows the precedent. My cruise control 50 mile highway run at 65 MPH with over 10K on the odometer showed 39 point something MPG on the computer. It has never been over-optimistic by more than 2 MPG. Maybe I got a good one.

I'll back up my claim that there's nothing wrong with Impreza with an unbiased source:
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/07/19/...-sport-review/
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:53 AM   #4335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
I'll back up my claim that there's nothing wrong with Impreza with an unbiased source:
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/07/19/...-sport-review/
Why don't you look at mpgomatic's results of the other cars you listed and compare them with their own EPA highway estimates? You have to compare them with their estimates though. Then you'll have something to back up.

For example, the Impreza got 36.9 mpg at 68 mph. 36.9 divided by 36 = 1.025, or 2.5% better than Subaru claims the Impreza got on the EPA '08 test procedure.

What are the percentages of the other cars you listed?

Here are the EPA ratings:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:30 AM   #4336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
the Impreza got 36.9 mpg at 68 mph.
Professional drivers tested the Impreza CVT and it yielded 36.9 mpg @68mph

The EPA rates it at 36mpg highway.

So the car exceeds the EPA rating, in independent professional testing, and you are still complaining and equivocating...

LOL
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:46 AM   #4337
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Not sure if this would add or detract to the endless debate but has anyone heard of automatic? Www.automatic.com

I don't work for them but I've preordered mine (I like geek tech) and essentially among other things it'll assess your driving habits. Does other stuff like read error codes and tells you where the car is parked and advanced trip computer stuff. I can't vouch for it but I am definitely intrigued, iphone only at this time and plugs into your obd port.

FYI I'm not a car minded guy so this sort of stuff appeals to me.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:28 AM   #4338
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Somebody spiked the Kool-aid!!!

Last edited by G2Spfld; 06-03-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 06-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #4339
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Originally Posted by robbthundr View Post
Not sure if this would add or detract to the endless debate but has anyone heard of automatic? Www.automatic.com

I don't work for them but I've preordered mine (I like geek tech) and essentially among other things it'll assess your driving habits. Does other stuff like read error codes and tells you where the car is parked and advanced trip computer stuff. I can't vouch for it but I am definitely intrigued, iphone only at this time and plugs into your obd port.

FYI I'm not a car minded guy so this sort of stuff appeals to me.
I pre-ordered that too, I know there are cheaper android versions you can get out there, but this seemed like a good app + obd combo for iOS. Hopefully should be mine sometime this month
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:17 PM   #4340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
I don't have a subscription to CR to view that link.
So now my questions are these:
What were the CR ratings of competitive class cars like Mazda3, Corolla, Focus, Civic, and Elantra?
What were the CR ratings of other CVT equipped vehicles like Outback and Versa?
Steve -

can you assist with this since you have a subscription? based on my own experience, i have little doubt that the Civic and Corolla will be exceeding the EPA estimates by the CR tests.

but these are the numbers of relevance to most people on this forum. most people choosing or not choosing the Impreza would be comparing it to other small cars with their posted EPA estimates.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:29 PM   #4341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbthundr View Post
Not sure if this would add or detract to the endless debate but has anyone heard of automatic? Www.automatic.com

FYI I'm not a car minded guy so this sort of stuff appeals to me.
You already lost Stevenhnm, this is on the front page of Automatic.com:

"Speeding: Highway speeding may not save you much time, but driving 10 MPH over the speed limit reduces fuel efficiency by 12-15%."

Now he has to whip out extra spreadsheets to show you how wrong that statement is...

Personally, I looked over the site, it looks like a cool device, but I think it would be worth the money only if I was driving an older car that was kicking out engine codes that needed attention. As a device just to tell me to watch my driving technique, the Subaru already has gauges that I mostly ignore. I know when I am beating the car a bit that mpg's drop, and when I am driving normally I am getting pretty good mpg's. It is nice to know that smartphones will allow you to translate engine codes though, and I will certainly buy a program like this in the future well out of warranty (when stuff starts to happen...)

Last edited by Zeeper; 06-03-2013 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:54 PM   #4342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post

Why don't you look at mpgomatic's results of the other cars you listed and compare them with their own EPA highway estimates? You have to compare them with their estimates though. Then you'll have something to back up.
I'll dig those up on mpgomatic. Are you able to find them on CR?
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:25 AM   #4343
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http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/02/18/...-coupe-review/
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2011/12/28/...chback-review/
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2012/01/10/...yactiv-review/
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2011/08/27/...lantra-review/
http://www.mpgomatic.com/2008/08/16/...orolla-review/

Model - EPA city/hwy/comb/fe.gov_useravg - MPGOM hwy/comb/Cruise-on-68mph/Cruise-off-60-72mph - MPGOM vs EPA hwy % diff
2012 Subaru Impreza Sport Limited -- EPA 27/36/30/29.4 - MPGOM 38.1/31.9/36.6/40.8 - 5.8%
2012 Ford Focus Titanium HB -------- EPA 27/37/31/31.3 - MPGOM 39.2/31.3/39.2/40.3 - 5.9%
2009 Toyota Corolla XLE ------------ EPA 27/35/30/33.4 - MPGOM 40.3/35.2/unav/unav - 15.1%
2011 Hyundai Elantra Limited Sedan - EPA 28/38/32/30.5 - MPGOM 40.5/36.4/39.9/41.2 - 6.6%
2012 Honda Civic EX Coupe --------- EPA 28/39/32/33.8 - MPGOM 43.1/35.1/41.9/44.6 - 10.5%
2012 Mazda 3 Grand Touring Sedan -- EPA 28/40/33/35.7 - MPGOM 45.1/35.8/44.3/45.9 - 12.8%

Last edited by hemophilic; 06-04-2013 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Ordered by MPGOM highway results, added hwy% diff
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:22 AM   #4344
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Model_______CR Hwy_____EPA Hwy_____% Diff
Impreza CVT___35__________36__________-3
Focus SE______43__________38_________+13
Civic Sedan SI__39__________31__________+26
Mazda3 (Avg of 4)_34.25_______30__________+14
Corolla________38___________35___________+9
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Old 06-04-2013, 04:19 AM   #4345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Model_______CR Hwy_____EPA Hwy_____% Diff
Impreza CVT___35__________36__________-3
Focus SE______43__________38_________+13
Civic Sedan SI__39__________31__________+26
Mazda3 (Avg of 4)_34.25_______30__________+14
Corolla________38___________35___________+9
Your math is TERRIBLE!!!!

Using your numbers the difference for the civic is +20.6% corolla is +7.9% and the Mazda is +12.4%!!! You should try a calculator instead of trying to do them in your head!
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:44 AM   #4346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
Model_______CR Hwy_____EPA Hwy_____% Diff
Impreza CVT___35__________36__________-3
Focus SE______43__________38_________+13
Civic Sedan SI__39__________31__________+26
Mazda3 (Avg of 4)_34.25_______30__________+14
Corolla________38___________35___________+9
A civic si gets 39 mpg at 65mph? Wowzers.
What Mazda 3 gets 30 mpg hwy? I thought even the fast ones did better.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:18 AM   #4347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteg View Post
Your math is TERRIBLE!!!!

Using your numbers the difference for the civic is +20.6% corolla is +7.9% and the Mazda is +12.4%!!! You should try a calculator instead of trying to do them in your head!
No it isn't, you're doing the calculation wrong (or, rather, backwards).

Example:

If the baseline were 100 (or mpg number), then increasing to 125 is a 25% increase.

You are doing the reverse calculation - if the baseline (or mpg number) is 125, then going down 100 is only a 20% decrease.

So you are doing 31 divided by 39, when you should be doing 39 divided by 31.

Haven't posted here in quite awhile but occasionally stop in to read the ridiculousness of this thread - but I can let someone calling their intelligence terrible go unanswered!

Oh and to be relevant to the thread, my take is still (after 17K miles): short trips absolutely kill this car's mpg. And having owned close to a dozen different vehicles (all of which I've averaged close to the epa highway estimates in all-around driving) it is a problem that is completely unique to this car.

Last edited by pxpaulx; 06-04-2013 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:31 AM   #4348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemophilic View Post
A civic si gets 39 mpg at 65mph? Wowzers.
What Mazda 3 gets 30 mpg hwy? I thought even the fast ones did better.
The Mazda3's were averaged - and I missed one. The actual averages of the 5 were CU 38 EPA 32 - Average 19% better.


40 33 21%
34 25 36%
39 33 18%
43 40 8%
34 29 17%
38 32 19%

Average is the bottom line.

Gotta run right now - Work calls!
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:08 AM   #4349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpaulx View Post
Oh and to be relevant to the thread, my take is still (after 17K miles): short trips absolutely kill this car's mpg. And having owned close to a dozen different vehicles (all of which I've averaged close to the epa highway estimates in all-around driving) it is a problem that is completely unique to this car.
Notice the MPGOM combined numbers. Focus and Imp are down a bit from the others. Wondering why...
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:56 AM   #4350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpaulx View Post

No it isn't, you're doing the calculation wrong (or, rather, backwards).

Example:

If the baseline were 100 (or mpg number), then increasing to 125 is a 25% increase.

You are doing the reverse calculation - if the baseline (or mpg number) is 125, then going down 100 is only a 20% decrease.

So you are doing 31 divided by 39, when you should be doing 39 divided by 31.

Haven't posted here in quite awhile but occasionally stop in to read the ridiculousness of this thread - but I can let someone calling their intelligence terrible go unanswered!

Oh and to be relevant to the thread, my take is still (after 17K miles): short trips absolutely kill this car's mpg. And having owned close to a dozen different vehicles (all of which I've averaged close to the epa highway estimates in all-around driving) it is a problem that is completely unique to this car.
It isn't unique to this car, in my Buick any short trips killed the overall mpg, even only 10% of the tank and I would be at the city mpg rather than closer to highway like would be expected
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