Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-02-2013, 08:48 AM   #1
warpath
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84622
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: -=OT B-Lister=-
Vehicle:
2020 GT500
2020 F250 Tremor

Default Police Car Startup Carbon Motors Abandons Plant, Leaves Town

Leftlane: http://www.leftlanenews.com/police-c...aves-town.html



Quote:
The startup automaker that promised to build high-tech police cars in Indiana has left town, reports indicate.

Carbon Motors has abandoned its Connersville, Indiana, assembly plant, taking with it all of tis equipment. According to the Connersville News-Examiner, the city's Street Department has painted over plant signage and removed the "Carbon Motors Drive" that ceremonially stood in front of the facility.

The police car manufacturer's fate was essentially sealed after it wasn't granted the $310 million loan it had requested from the Department of Energy a couple of years ago. Carbon fought back initially but soon faded away, leaving even Connersville's mayor a bit confused.

"No one has said anything about where they are going or what's going to happen, we just know they came and got their stuff," Connersville mayor Leonard Urban told the paper.

The former Visteon plant Carbon occupied was leased by the police car builder from the city of Connersville, but the two parties' deal expired officially yesterday. Carbon has made no move to extend or renew the lease.

Connersville was banking on Carbon to turn around Fayette County, which had Indiana's highest unemployment rate after Visteon closed up shop. Carbon promised upwards of 1,000 jobs that never materialized.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
warpath is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 04-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #2
Mechie3
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 120152
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Indy
Default

The only thing that plant has been used for in the past couple years is Indy SCCA autocrosses.
Mechie3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:44 AM   #3
Gixhost
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 180111
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Lost in the DMV
Vehicle:
* 2004.114.3 STi
Aspen White

Default

I was really hoping this company would get off the ground. It is just too bad. They were just flashing CG pictures of a truck to be released a few months ago.
Gixhost is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 12:27 PM   #4
White out
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 46277
Join Date: Oct 2003
Vehicle:
H1 Viper
LP640 FGT

Default

If they would have released this car as the crown vic was going down, they would have been perfect. Timing killed them.
White out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #5
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
If they would have released this car as the crown vic was going down, they would have been perfect. Timing killed them.
I'm not convinced that they would have succeeded even if they'd come to market 2 years earlier and had been granted the DOE loan pre-Solyndra-skittishness.

About the only "startup" cars I see out in the wild--save for Teslas--are the odd MV-1 cab here and there. Their initial apparent strong take rate has been shown to have been a fluke, at least in Chicago, based on temporary privileges (cutting in line at the airport) since rescinded.

shikataganai is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 02:32 PM   #6
Rootus
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 89821
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: A Series Of Toobs
Vehicle:
2015 STI LE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
If they would have released this car as the crown vic was going down, they would have been perfect. Timing killed them.
It was doomed from the beginning. Ultra-niche market and competition from three very experienced, well funded car makers. Not sure why they ever thought they could succeed.
Rootus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 02:39 PM   #7
RM_2
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 163058
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Central Indiana
Vehicle:
'20 WRX
'16 BRZ Limited

Default

Can't say I'm surprised at this news at all.

Ford Interceptor
Dodge Charger
Chevy SS

All contenders with serious roots with police departments around the country. Ain't no one got time fo' Carbon Motors!
RM_2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 03:23 PM   #8
gggplaya
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 139444
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PA
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza
Dark Gray

Default

I'm surprised they got as far as they did. Serviceability is the biggest issue with police cars, most departments in major cities can't afford enough cars, so they run cars 24 hours a day for 3 shifts. Driving fast through bumpy city streets and over potholes takes it toll on police cars. Keeping cars out of the garage for as long as possible is ideal. You simply can't match chevy, dodge, or ford with it's dealer network and parts distribution. Most times you can have parts the same day, fix the car and have it back up and running within hours.

The integrated dash, and cool spy features are nice. But most departments can only afford the bare minimum for officers. Which is lights, sirens, and a laptop. The diesel engine is nice, but many of these new V6's surpass it in horsepower and are on par with fuel economy. So really i see no incentive to adopt this car.
gggplaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #9
slvr bullet
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 52400
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sacramento
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

I suspect part of their problem was actually selling their product. Having had direct first hand experience with them at a marketing/sales event I believe this is the case. They denied our chief and head of fleet any request to see the inside of the car of take measurements. Not the cabin, not the back seat, not the trunk. Kinda hard to sell a car to prospective buyers with specific needs when you won't let them examine your product before committing serious money to it.
slvr bullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:18 PM   #10
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

From the start, the pricks running Carbon Motors called themselves a "homeland security company," kept insinuating that anyone who didn't buy their vaporware car was putting officers' lives at risk, and acted as if they had a right to the DOE loan as well as municipal government business.

If this was such a good idea, there are many automakers and defense companies that could have bought this from them along with private investors.

While I feel sorry for the residents of Connersville, who I'm sure are looking for opportunity, I can't help but be happy at the demise of a vaporware car company incorporated with the express intent of living off of taxpayer dollars. Before anyone says so, GM and Chrysler were different, and those were thousands of jobs and entire states' livelihoods at risk.
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:25 PM   #11
Eyeflyistheeye
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 69694
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: My personal hell
Vehicle:
2014 EuroPinto 5MT

Default

And how professional. The CEO of Carbon Motors is on Meetup, the same place where I look for twunts to date. Take that Alan Mulally!

http://www.meetup.com/The-Autotech-C...mber/84860462/
Eyeflyistheeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:43 PM   #12
AllAWD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17079
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Alexandria, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
From the start, the pricks running Carbon Motors called themselves a "homeland security company," kept insinuating that anyone who didn't buy their vaporware car was putting officers' lives at risk, and acted as if they had a right to the DOE loan as well as municipal government business.

If this was such a good idea, there are many automakers and defense companies that could have bought this from them along with private investors.

While I feel sorry for the residents of Connersville, who I'm sure are looking for opportunity, I can't help but be happy at the demise of a vaporware car company incorporated with the express intent of living off of taxpayer dollars. Before anyone says so, GM and Chrysler were different, and those were thousands of jobs and entire states' livelihoods at risk.
Yep. I'm sure the Carbon motors guys paid themselves well. Wouldn't be surprised if they run the same scam in a couple years with some other product.
AllAWD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 08:54 AM   #13
gggplaya
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 139444
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PA
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
From the start, the pricks running Carbon Motors called themselves a "homeland security company," kept insinuating that anyone who didn't buy their vaporware car was putting officers' lives at risk, and acted as if they had a right to the DOE loan as well as municipal government business.

If this was such a good idea, there are many automakers and defense companies that could have bought this from them along with private investors.

While I feel sorry for the residents of Connersville, who I'm sure are looking for opportunity, I can't help but be happy at the demise of a vaporware car company incorporated with the express intent of living off of taxpayer dollars. Before anyone says so, GM and Chrysler were different, and those were thousands of jobs and entire states' livelihoods at risk.
That's what pisses me off. My hard earned tax dollars are paying for crap like this, when there are already 3 comparable vehicles on the market. I don't see any extra value in their package other than, maybe a little extra comfort for the officers. But that's not something where a new vehicle needs to be made, they simply get the big 3 to spec out new seats.

Whichever government figurehead funded this project should be fired. They shouldn't just throw around money all willy nilly, there should be a returned value in the funding. Like new autonomous research that can save lives, or a new car that can return more MPG's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
And how professional. The CEO of Carbon Motors is on Meetup, the same place where I look for twunts to date. Take that Alan Mulally!

http://www.meetup.com/The-Autotech-C...mber/84860462/
What's a twunt?
gggplaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 12:28 PM   #14
Yotsuya
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 935
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: ಠ_ಠ Chicago
Vehicle:
Will Woollard
Fan Club

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I'm not convinced that they would have succeeded even if they'd come to market 2 years earlier and had been granted the DOE loan pre-Solyndra-skittishness.

About the only "startup" cars I see out in the wild--save for Teslas--are the odd MV-1 cab here and there. Their initial apparent strong take rate has been shown to have been a fluke, at least in Chicago, based on temporary privileges (cutting in line at the airport) since rescinded.

I still see a lot of them around town, looking like fat-ass English cabs for Americans. Pace has bought a few as well as fat-ass para-transporters to replace their old Scion xBs.

Most new cabs are Altima hybrids, which took over after the old Escape hybrids stopped being made. Priuses are also pretty common.
Yotsuya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #15
wrxsubaru
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 65133
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Default

The police market is pretty small. I think its around 60,000 cars annually and that includes SUV type cop cars. So really its targeting a audience of maybe 50,000. Pretty competitive when you have the Taurus, Charger, Impala, Tahoe, Durango, Explorer, and Caprice to compete with. To put all of the R&D even on 30000 units would make the vehicle price to high. It just to competitive to develop a car that would only be sold to police forces the company would need to spread the R&D of the general car over more units like Dodge, Chevy, and Ford already do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RM_2 View Post
Can't say I'm surprised at this news at all.

Ford Interceptor
Dodge Charger
Chevy SS

All contenders with serious roots with police departments around the country. Ain't no one got time fo' Carbon Motors!
wrxsubaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 05:04 PM   #16
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gggplaya View Post
That's what pisses me off. My hard earned tax dollars are paying for crap like this, when there are already 3 comparable vehicles on the market. I don't see any extra value in their package other than, maybe a little extra comfort for the officers. But that's not something where a new vehicle needs to be made, they simply get the big 3 to spec out new seats.

Whichever government figurehead funded this project should be fired. They shouldn't just throw around money all willy nilly, there should be a returned value in the funding. Like new autonomous research that can save lives, or a new car that can return more MPG's.?
Uh, did you miss the part about how the company folded because the DOE loan they were banking on was denied?
shikataganai is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.