|
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
04-22-2014, 07:23 AM | #26 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
This is a GTX30R based kit and we'll be checking 35R fitment soon. EFR turbochargers are very long in comparison and there is no Tial product available for them yet.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
|
04-22-2014, 07:23 AM | #27 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 48350
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:WRX 03/04/07 hybrid PSM |
My wish is that you would make a 321 two bolt ewg rotated up pipe with mounting bracket for the tial housing. That with a down pipe as a "tuner tuner kit" would be sweet.
Last edited by slowgenius; 04-22-2014 at 12:00 PM. |
04-22-2014, 11:47 AM | #28 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:2015 STi LE EFR7163 500whp/550wtq |
Wow, how is this making full boost at 2900rpm?
|
04-22-2014, 12:58 PM | #29 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 266954
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: delaware county pa
Vehicle:04 wrx v7 sti swap agile tuned 389hp 342ftlb |
If you want to test this kit on a ej207 let me know it definetly looks like a kit iam interested in.
|
04-22-2014, 01:01 PM | #30 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 194894
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Cincinnati
Vehicle:2018 BRZ |
I would be happy if you made a rotated vband up pipe w/ EWG that was compatible w/ the existing header and the tial housing. Would have saved me a lot of grief.
|
04-22-2014, 04:13 PM | #31 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 191736
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: madison wisconsin
Vehicle:2009 WRX Hatch grey |
seriously. when will these be ready, and how much of a deposit do you need. |
04-22-2014, 07:40 PM | #32 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 50315
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:0806 LGTspecB & Saab 9-2xAero5MT DGM & MBP |
You mention heat soak, and that you're planning to change from an OEM to ETS TMIC due to soaking... why not just throw a blanket on the hot side of the turbo?
|
04-22-2014, 08:15 PM | #33 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 282204
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Northeast CT
Vehicle:2011 5 Door STi Plasma Blue Pearl |
turbo characteristics
So I know that you tuned for 21 lbs of boost, but if you had a built block what sort of boost pressure is the turbo at its' best on?
Is there any boost drop off at higher rpms with a given higher boost target? How would you compare this turbo and setup comparatively to a gtx3071/ 2.5xtr and a gtx3076? Thanks Chris for the fantastic work. |
04-22-2014, 08:49 PM | #34 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:2006 XTI Limited OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP |
|
04-22-2014, 09:02 PM | #35 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:2006 XTI Limited OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP |
This adapter and down pipe kit will be optimized when used with a Killer B Holy header. It can be used with any SL up pipe/ EWG set up. This is not really a small niche part of the Subaru market. If you are already running an EWG SL turbo build and looking to ditch the stock location turbine housing for your Garrett CHRA turbo and want to make more power with better spool then this will be a great option. Even if you have a non Garrett based SL turbo EWG build this is also a good option if you also upgrade to a Garrett based turbo!
|
04-22-2014, 09:56 PM | #36 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:2002 WRX - 750WHP 9.5s @ 150mph |
Quote:
Garrett 30R Turbo Tial V-Band Hotside Machined Compressor Housing KillerB Adapter Flange and Associated Hardware KillerB V-Band Downpipe That seems like the basic list for most people. I'd imagine that quite a few of the people wanting to do this would be wanting to just buy the whole turbo with this kit. If you are buying the whole turbo you also may be buying some random oil and coolant fittings/lines. There are some people that would be running a stock location 30R and want to do this as an upgrade to their current turbo. But that still requires the KillerB flange and KillerB downpipe, plus a Tial hotside, and custom machining on the compressor housing. That seems like an awful lot of money to spend to be able to go from an stock location housing to a Tial housing. I'd have to guess that it would be a similar cost to go to a true rotated, fully v-band turbo and get an easier setup to work on an a more simple intake path. To me it just seems like a bit of a compromise vs. a rotated setup or even a "stock location" v-band uppipe. I'm surprised KillerB chose to go down this path. They've never been one to compromise. It always seems like performance is #1 (and I like that). For example: If they'd have offered their header with a 2 bolt flange so that it could be used with other uppipes (especially before they had the EWG option) it would have sold more I'm sure. But they didn't, and I understand why. Their more expensive option (header+uppipe) was better. I think you're probably right that there are some people who will have lots of upgraded stock location parts and be convinced that this is easier (a few less parts to buy/replace), but I think a lot of it will have to do with how much (if any) cheaper this is than a rotated uppipe and downpipe. Looking forward to seeing pricing and more results. Unfortunately I don't have a Garrett-based stock location turbo at the moment or maybe I could be convinced to give this a shot. I'd certainly be more interested in a KillerB v-band uppipe (but I suppose you already offer that, sort of, with the DIY kit). |
|
04-23-2014, 12:51 AM | #37 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 103631
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mililani, Hawaii
Vehicle:2004 STI Gray |
There's a definite loss in top end with the gtx3071 with the 63. But the reverse feels true for me. The loss in spool from the 82 feels negligible, whereas it's noticeable on the old 3067. I have both housings. It does seem logical to expect the smaller housing top end impact to be lessened on the 67 with the lower flowing wheel, but it's cheaper to ask than to buy one and test it. I feel like if the 67 with the 82 performs even partially better than the 71 with 63 but spools faster Id consider getting one.
|
04-23-2014, 08:26 AM | #38 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 103232
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: GTX3576R 05GD, GTX3076R'd FXT
Vehicle:GTX 3071R'd 11WRX PPG,4.44,LSD,E85,6spdx3 |
What your thoughts of a GTX2867r? Could the 28 turbine wheel help improve spool? Or would the added pre turbo back pressure possibly actually slow spool do to the engine not being able to expel exhaust fast enough?
|
04-23-2014, 10:47 AM | #39 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:2006 XTI Limited OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP |
Quote:
Garrett 30R Turbo- It could be any Garrett turbo variants that Tial makes housings for; 28R, 30R, Blouch Dom 3.5/ 4 (with some machining to the 30R housing to open it up for there Garrett 64 mm turbine wheel) and probably the 35R's (this needs some testing to be sure it fits) Tial V-Band Hotside- Yep Machined Compressor Housing- Were not completely sure on this yet, I think my Dom 3.5 comp housing will not need machining but this need further testing and fitment. KillerB Adapter Flange and Associated Hardware- Yep KillerB V-Band Downpipe- Yep I was the one that instigated this project with Chris. When i first told him that I thought we could fit the Tial houising in the stock loication, I was thinking that we would just cut off the SL flange and weld on the v-band flange, then modify the down pipe to fit the Tial housing. After Chris and I spoke and exchanged email's Chris and I thought that an adapter flange would work and if it would it would also open this idea up to any stock location up pipe regardles of the header used. Chris then did the engineering on this adapter/ DP and got it to the beta test point it is at now. I think we all agree a modded KBHH SL up pipe with just a v-band flange would be cleaner but this adapter actually opens up the user market to more than just Killer B Holy Header users and does not compromise the performance one bit. Here's a little bit more history on this that I posted in the KB header testing thread. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=454 |
|
04-23-2014, 11:29 AM | #40 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:2002 WRX - 750WHP 9.5s @ 150mph |
Yes, I did see that you took credit for this in the other thread.
|
04-23-2014, 11:30 AM | #41 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:2006 XTI Limited OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP |
Quote:
|
|
04-23-2014, 11:46 AM | #42 | ||||||||||
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Quote:
It's actually a wee bit less than that, bus who's counting Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As far as pushing beyond these levels I would refer you to the compressor map to see where things fall at higher boost levels. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So far we've got MSRP at $1,728. This includes adapter with hold down clamps, downpipe and all hardware necessary to install a GT/GTX/Tial turbocharger (gaskets, drain, coolant fittings, etc.). We can look at other options that may include turbocharger and the Perrin inlet we used also. This is all up for debate. Quote:
I've never run one. Smaller wheels generally spin quicker because of the lower mass. Pre-turbo pressure should improve spool since this is what puts the turbine into motion The smaller housing will theoretically become the limitation as the revs climb high though. |
||||||||||
04-23-2014, 12:15 PM | #43 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 193757
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Cedar, MI HP Techs MPS-SSLR2.5
Vehicle:2006 XTI Limited OBP, Junior tuned 573WHP |
Quote:
|
|
04-23-2014, 01:02 PM | #44 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
^ Might not be a bad idea.
|
04-23-2014, 01:42 PM | #45 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 285083
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Newport News, VA
Vehicle:2006 STi WRB |
The .63 tial housing will most likely be the better choice for most people that want a snappy turbo setup like this especially with a gtx3067 turbo choice.
I think the Tial .63 housings flow better and cleaner at higher rpms compared to most .63 housings as well... these Tial castings are immaculate inside and out. On top of that with an external wastegate setup your bypassing a decent amount of exhaust pressure before it even hits the inlet of the exhaust housing which should create alot less turbulence right there at the turbine vs an IWG setup. But it really all depends on how you want your car. Me personally id rather take a 15whp loss at high rpms to gain a decent amount of throttle response, couple hundred rpms less lag, and have stronger low end tq. |
04-23-2014, 02:49 PM | #46 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 250066
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Duvall, WA
Vehicle:'06 Forester XT '03 Rustang LQ4 Turbo |
Do the Tial housings have different internal dimensions and/or flow characteristics compared to Garrett's traditional flanged turbos? In other words, is there any difference in performance between a GT35 .82 A/R T04 open volute and its Tial counterpart?
|
04-23-2014, 02:51 PM | #47 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 170602
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: j-ville fl
Vehicle:06 Wrx RWD Auto 76MM-AEM-2200's |
Regarding the blanket on top of swain coating, im sure you already know this and have tried it but I run a blanket on my swain hot side and it has no effect on the coating. At least on my car it hasnt, none has come off and no rub spots. And having the blanket on of course does help some more. |
04-23-2014, 03:10 PM | #48 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 285083
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Newport News, VA
Vehicle:2006 STi WRB |
Quote:
Keep in mind this is a 06 STi with the very short 4th gear (97mph at redline, 245/40/17 tire) and I only have single AVCS vs the killer Bs dual avcs gtx3067 test car. As most of you know both of these factors have a huge affect of building boost and comparing results at very low rpms. Other then that our car setups are somewhat similar as I have a EL header, TMIC, .64 tial vband housing. The size of the turbine wheel in the gt28 vs gt30 is a big difference. The gt28 uses a more efficient "ns111" 9 blade wheel thats only 53.8mm. The standard 30r turbine wheel was actually designed for diesels from my understanding, and is 60mm 10blade. There are "NS111" 60mm 30r turbine wheels produced by Garrett that are a more efficient design and much lighter but they are rare and not available to the public. Just trying to shed a little light to people interested as I read up on all turbos options and all the different choices for months before I buy parts to put together my setup for what I want. I really wish Garrett would step up and make a newer,lighter, and better designed turbine as I have a feeling they are going to lose ALOT of customers once Borg Warner figures out how to produce more then 5 turbos per year and when the Tial ewg vband housings are finally released for them (efr series) Im curious to see how much peak power KillerB can hit on this gtx3067 setup with e85 so I can also compare the peak numbers with my gtx2867 e85 setup. |
|
04-23-2014, 03:27 PM | #49 | |||
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Quote:
That comparison won't come from us, we have no E85 anywhere nearby Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
04-23-2014, 03:54 PM | #50 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 285083
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Newport News, VA
Vehicle:2006 STi WRB |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|