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Old 08-11-2011, 10:19 PM   #1
XanRules
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Default FAQ OF THE YEAR: "Will the 2012 WRX/STi be Different than the 2011?"

NO

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Old 08-11-2011, 10:22 PM   #2
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Xan, this should be stickied!

Amazing post, as always!
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:29 PM   #3
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Well done sir, well done. Crazy amount of research and quality post as always.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:30 PM   #4
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but but but are you sure?
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:43 PM   #5
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This is the best thread I have ever seen.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buguy View Post
Well done sir, well done. Crazy amount of research and quality post as always.
This is about as much as I usually do, yeah...
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:43 AM   #7
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I thought the 2012 is a year newer then the 2011, so it not the same. Thank you for the posr you have no idea the amont of people who say "hey i heard the new WRX is gonna be 305hp" and dumb stuff like that.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:04 AM   #8
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honestly i don't think we will see a big change until 2013/2014, Subaru seems to like things in 3s lately 08-10, and the current STI is selling like hot cakes, there is no reason for them to change it soon.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:17 AM   #9
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But wont the new 2012s have less milage on them then the 2011s?
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:16 AM   #10
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Will the 2013 WRX/STi be different than the 2012?

*since you are a grammar nazi and all things grammar; why is the letter 'd' capitalized in the word 'Different'?
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:22 AM   #11
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It will still be underpowered by todays standards. As will the EVO and especially so the GTI. And the MPG will still suck.

Import car companies need to make some big changes. As much as we would love to sit here and kid ourselves that everyone buys STIs and EVOs because they are each specifically an awesome car, most people (I sold Subaru, so I have seen this first hand) that buy STIs, are interested in one thing. The power for the $. And now you can get into 400+hp cars for less. And with those cars having better and better build quality, and one specifically damn near out handling the M3, the reasons to buy an STI are getting less and less.

IMO, unless you are looking to make a lot of power, its already getting close to being stupid to buy an STI. And if I were to go buy a new Subie right now, it would NOT be an STI. That wasnt the case even 3-4 years ago, when there was a HUGE difference between the 2 (despite what most of the WRX buyers wanted to kid themselves about, the STI was still a better performance base to start with at the time)


IMO it should be something more like

STI 400hp
EVO 400hp (both of these at 420 would be better, but 400 would be a great place to be)
WRX 315-320
Lancer whatever (the turbo one, not evo) 315-320
GTI 260-270 (it may be near there already, I havent kept up), with an AWD version at or near 400

The rest of the "performance" imports, the cheaper FWD cars like the SER and such, should ALL be in the 210-225 range.


If they dont get on this, imports will become the joke they once were, again.



From 02 till around 2010 turbo imports were at or above the performance of the domestic "muscle" cars (what a joke, the mustang GT had like 260hp and handled like a sponge, and the camaro was slow and driven by retards usually named Tony or something)

But in the last couple years, the game has been stepped up. And they are doing it while getting BETTER mpg than they got when they made 100hp less, in fact, the V6 versions are getting better MPG than the WRX, and are faster.


Subaru and Mitsu in particularly, need to wake up.


But this is classic Subaru, and it will probably take till like 2015 or so. Look at how Subaru brought in Alteeza tail lights well after even the ricers stopped doing them. And stuck with them for how many years after? They are incredibly slow to react to market changes. The fact that they upped the game so much from the 08 WRX to the 09 WRX is an anomaly and I doubt it will happen again, at least not for a long time.



And then ALL car companies need to start bringing their small displacement turbo diesel compacts to the USA. There is no reason they should be struggling to pull more MPG out of a 2.0L gas engine when a 1.6L turbo diesel could power the car just as well and get better mpg. And last time I checked, diesel emissions were less harmful than gas. (dont quote me on that part)

Last edited by Davenow; 08-12-2011 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:24 AM   #12
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This is the worst thread I've ever read.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
Davenow's points
I agree a power bump might be needed, but I'd prefer to go with Mr. Chapman's approach and lighten up these beasts. 350 HP (easily and safely attained even on the current ej25x turbo engines) in a car that is lighter and more nimble would be my preference.

Sadly, it is a numbers game and people will just shop horsepower, tho.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbs627 View Post
I agree a power bump might be needed, but I'd prefer to go with Mr. Chapman's approach and lighten up these beasts. 350 HP (easily and safely attained even on the current ej25x turbo engines) in a car that is lighter and more nimble would be my preference.

Sadly, it is a numbers game and people will just shop horsepower, tho.

Very true.

Here is why I didnt say that.


The trend is going heavier and heavier. Cars are getting STUPID heavy nowadays, so calling for them to get lighter, that's something I just dont think is going to happen. Especially when, for example, so many STI customers cried about NVH in the 04-05 when Subaru still did take weight into consideration. Those people should not have bought an STI to begin with.

Plus like you said, uninformed (imo plain out stupid) car shoppers look only at HP. Ignoring TQ and ignoring ACTUAL PERFORMANCE. So weight doesnt come into play, and if you take 2 cars, one has 25hp more and weighs 500+lbs more, people will automatically think the heavier car is faster.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
And then ALL car companies need to start bringing their small displacement turbo diesel compacts to the USA. There is no reason they should be struggling to pull more MPG out of a 2.0L gas engine when a 1.6L turbo diesel could power the car just as well and get better mpg. And last time I checked, diesel emissions were less harmful than gas. (dont quote me on that part)
.....
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:35 AM   #16
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I dont remember what model car or what year, but I remember looking at a car, the US version had a 1.6L and the EU version was available with a 1.2L turbo diesel.

The 1.2L was just as fast with something like 10mpg better fuel consumption.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
Very true.

Especially when, for example, so many STI customers cried about NVH in the 04-05 when Subaru still did take weight into consideration. Those people should not have bought an STI to begin with.

Plus like you said, uninformed (imo plain out stupid) car shoppers look only at HP. Ignoring TQ and ignoring ACTUAL PERFORMANCE. So weight doesnt come into play, and if you take 2 cars, one has 25hp more and weighs 500+lbs more, people will automatically think the heavier car is faster.
So true.

Call me weird but I enjoy the NVH in my 05 STi.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:42 AM   #18
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Not to bring up domestics again, but another reason the import companies need to up their game is that the domestic companies are starting to figure out how to build motors that actually perform well for their size, with better fuel economy. Look at the V6 ecoboost motor. More power than pretty much every NA V8 out there, with incredible reliability and great mpg.

Turbos need to come on more than just the "performance" cars and towing vehicles. There is zero reason Subaru couldnt put a 1.8L with a TINY turbo out making 175hp if they set their mind to it. They just need to remove "turbo" from the name and tune it to be ok on 87 octane. That is a low power level and should be easy to hit. Or skip gas altogether and go 1.6-1.8L turbo diesel. And dont advertise it as a turbo diesel, just a diesel.



When I sold Subaru, one of the hardest walls to overcome was when someone wanted a car with a little more power, the only available option was a turbo motor. And 9 times out of 10, the second they heard the word "turbo" they rolled their eyes and made a comment about not needing a race car.

Notice ford isnt saying turbo. They are saying ECOboost. ECO is a word most moron consumers (which is 99% of consumers) get a hardon over. So the sales people dont have to try to get the racecar image out of people's mind when looking at it.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:47 AM   #19
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Amazing how one little red word can spark an in-depth discussion on the merits and pitfalls of the current version of the WRX/STi.

Imagine if he had said, YES
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbs627 View Post
So true.

Call me weird but I enjoy the NVH in my 05 STi.

And the 05 was a lot quieter and nicer riding than the 04.
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
And the 05 was a lot quieter and nicer riding than the 04.
Yerp. I needed a radio and like big hubs
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Old 08-12-2011, 11:57 AM   #22
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Strangely enough, the 05 handled better.


My buddy had an 04, I had an 05.

My 05 rode nicer, was quieter, and handled better.


But the 04 was faster, and more raw feeling.
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:22 PM   #23
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I had the 2004 STi. I didn't mind the clunk, but my tuner and friends did.
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:45 PM   #24
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Wasnt the clunk, it was just noisier due to pretty much zero sound deadening
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
Wasnt the clunk, it was just noisier due to pretty much zero sound deadening
I never noticed.
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