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Old 12-17-2012, 01:43 PM   #201
Rootus
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
How would you know?
I owned an MS3.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:52 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rootus View Post
I haven't driven a powerful FWD that I liked, yet. That would probably be the deal killer for me.
as in "all the powerful FWD cars I've driven I disliked so far" not "I've never driven a powerful FWD car"
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
He got the eye roll because he said he'd never driven a powerful FWD car but automatically assumed that it would suck.


.. you know.. because test drives are hard.
...you know...because reading comprehension is hard
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:13 PM   #203
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It is hard, Suba.. I read that line several times on multiple days and still managed to screw it up.


Sorry, Rootus. Consider the rolleyes aimed squarely back at myself.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:10 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post

How would you know? Go drive something.. powerful FWD cars can be a lot of fun.
<---- loving my ms3. Amazing handling.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:24 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
How would you know? Go drive something.. powerful FWD cars can be a lot of fun.
How would he not know, not like high powered FWD are rare. V6 Camry has more power than my Subie. Any car can be a lot of fun --My old <100hp Tercel was a lot of fun.

Anyways, if FWD was that good, I would think super car designers would be all over it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:47 AM   #206
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:49 AM   #207
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Default Ford Focus ST vs. VW Golf R and…Subaru BRZ in MT's Head2Head

Scrappy, since you drove both and ended up with the golf R i'd be intrested on your take on this. Never mind the crazy outta left field BRZ comparo.

carscoop: http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/12...andsubaru.html


Video:

Quote:
What are the criteria for comparing one car against another? Well, basically, they should belong to the same category; have similar performance stats and, perhaps more importantly, be close in price.
The new 2013 Ford Focus ST and the soon-to-be replaced VW Golf R that are featured in latest episode of "Head 2 Head" from Motor Trend are a match in two out of these three criteria: they're both compact hatchbacks and each gets a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine producing 256hp in the VW and 252hp in the Ford.

Aside from the fact that one is FWD (Focus) and other is AWD (Golf), what they differ in is their price, as the Focus ST 5d starts at $24,495 ($28,170 as tested) and the Golf R 5d at $34,590 ($36,895 as tested).

Since we're talking about a significant price distance between the two ($10k in basic trims), it would have made more sense to use the 2013 Golf GTI, which despite being less powerful at 200hp, it costs the same as the ST at $24,595 for the 4d model.

You will probably be wondering why Carlos Lago from Head 2 Head invited the Subaru BRZ.

Well, being that you cannot turn off stability control on the U.S.-spec Golf R (well, at least not without hacking it***8230;), the crew could not compare the two cars on the race track portion of the test, so they decided to replace it with the BRZ.

Given that they knew or should have known about the Golf R's problem from the start, it makes about as much sense as tits on a bull.

To see how this oddly matched trio faired, head past the break to watch the video.

Last edited by warpath; 12-22-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:57 AM   #208
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That's a great review of the ST. Its probably not the best car in the world and has some flaws but overall it will have you laughing and smiling every time you drive. I'm loving mine.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:11 PM   #209
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That's a great review of the ST. Its probably not the best car in the world and has some flaws but overall it will have you laughing and smiling every time you drive. I'm loving mine.
Every car has it's flaws (except the Marauder). I've been kicking around the idea of getting a Fiesta st when it comes out as a DD. How does the torque steer feel to you?
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:25 PM   #210
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The steering issue is there but really only bothers me under hard first gear pulls and maybe into second under wot. And the reality is with the wheel spin you have to control both with your right foot. Overall its a fwd with lots of torque and I put up with that for the advantage of the power.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:16 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
The steering issue is there but really only bothers me under hard first gear pulls and maybe into second under wot. And the reality is with the wheel spin you have to control both with your right foot. Overall its a fwd with lots of torque and I put up with that for the advantage of the power.
Is it only when you floor it? I guess I drove it fairly nicely in my test drive, cause it didn't pull much at all on the wheel
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:27 PM   #212
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Yeah like I said any driver worth their salt can manage it pretty well. Can't comment about the track yet.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:30 PM   #213
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I will say with the stock rubber on slick snowy roads the car sucks.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:00 PM   #214
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Warpath, I was saddened by the reviewer not choosing to track the Golf R as well. But the video is what it is. If you get the impression that the Focus ST is a blast to drive, then you are right. Before buying my golf R I drove the ST and was VERY impressed by the sound and the steering and the brakes. I wrote a review on the ST else where. Things that jumped out at me.

First the ST has wonderful looks and I found I was wishing the Subaru would emulate the dash feeling, functionality and layout of the Ford. I was only considering the ST3 trim level which has the matching full leather recaros. The seats sort of pinched me a bit too much. They were very nice and all , but when I was sitting still and not driving the car I noticed the seats are not totally comfortable for me (190 lb 5'11") . But the real deal breaker for me had nothing at all to do with the driving dynamics. Because they are REALLY good. It had more to do with the rear seat room. It was the tightest of the Subaru, Golf, Focus comparison I did. That alone sort of ruled it out. But make no mistake that 270 ft lbs of torque are addictive and reminded me of my MS3.

The test drive was fun, and I purposely let my hand off the wheel and floored it, and yes, the wheel did move, but it was so minor I could not ever see it being ANY ISSUE what so ever. The cars initial turn in was excellent and the brakes are nothing short of earth stopping. In the end, I was more drawn to the more refined Golf R package in general.

BacDoc, I know you are enjoying your car. MOre and more of these hot little hatches that are NOT a subaru are just upping the game so far above with intangibles that Subaru does not offer. I LOVE Subarus, and I pray for a respectable Legacy GT to come out so I can buy it (and I WILL), but until then the Golf R is the perfect DD/sporty car/track toy for me.

If I did not have any kiddos, I could have easily seen myself in the Focus though.

There is something else I will mention in favor of the Focus that potential buyers should remember..... FORD RACING Parts department will sell a BUCKET load of performance goodies for this car. Ford really supports their performance cars. If half the amount of parts come for the ST cars as they have for the Mustang, then watch out!
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:08 PM   #215
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I agree with all that. The rear seat room is tight, but I can fit the kids back there with no problem, however is it cramped. Ford Racing is set to release some stuff that will allow the car to remain under warranty but I doubt I want to pay $1000+ for an exhaust and so on.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:40 PM   #216
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Man I'm really tempted to go for an ST3, but like some people are mentioning its just so small. I have a few things I'll try with it before I cross it off the list (on which it's the only car that presently exists.) If it were WRX 5-door sized inside it would be a no brainer but yea.

Everyone can at me but man I wish Ford floated this over, too

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Old 12-27-2012, 01:53 PM   #217
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I searched for a 2002 2003 M5 for about a year and finally gave up because of dealers that were total BS and private owners who thought they were made out of Gold.

I always liked the looks of the ST, so I test drove one and found it a blast to drive, it actually made me want to drive like a total ass. The only concern I had was the lack of power and soon that will be taken care of. I ordered the base model in Racing Blue because I found the seats to be a bit more forgiving than the ST-2'S. For 23k I am having heaps of fun, getting great gas mileage and truly looking forward to driving it every chance I get.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:12 PM   #218
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I told my dad I drove like a 16 year old too.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:44 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by mikaust View Post
I searched for a 2002 2003 M5 for about a year and finally gave up because of dealers that were total BS and private owners who thought they were made out of Gold.

I always liked the looks of the ST, so I test drove one and found it a blast to drive, it actually made me want to drive like a total ass. The only concern I had was the lack of power and soon that will be taken care of. I ordered the base model in Racing Blue because I found the seats to be a bit more forgiving than the ST-2'S. For 23k I am having heaps of fun, getting great gas mileage and truly looking forward to driving it every chance I get.
That's adorable! Nothing like putting power down with a FWD car
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:50 PM   #220
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That's adorable! Nothing like putting power down with a FWD car
You're probably in the wrong thread if that's your mindset...
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Old 12-27-2012, 05:09 PM   #221
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You're probably in the wrong thread if that's your mindset...
Yeah sorry sometimes I enjoy a little trolling every now and then of self-proclaimed "total ass" drivers.
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:35 PM   #222
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I kind of want one..........that is all I got today.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:45 AM   #223
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Saw one at the Auto Show yesterday. Pretty impressed with the interior. Hoping the Fiesta ST will look the same.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:49 AM   #224
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I kind of want one..........that is all I got today.
It is a great car...
It is like the MS3 only with a good interior and defeatable nannies..

So in theory if the size works out, it is probably one of the most fun attainable cars on the road today.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:08 AM   #225
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Wait, you can't turn off the stability control on a Golf R--VW's most sporting model?!

That is as lame as MINI no longer offering a real LSD in their cars... .

Why are "driver's cars" being so watered down?
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