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Old 08-03-2004, 03:25 AM   #1
Big Turkey
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Default Dyno results with AZScoobie at MZM Performance

Well this weekend I put together another dyno tune with Clark, this time it was MZM Performance on their Mustang dyno. I'm going to give an overview of what happened, going into detail with my results, and I'll let the owners of the cars comment themselves.

I was told that their particular dyno reads extremely low. A stock EVO dyno's 170-180, and stock STi's dyno 195-210, with a local STi having the record of 212whp.

With that said, here are my results. Shop conditions were 97deg., 68% humidity. Dyno sheets will come up later:

295.6whp, 263.4ft/lbs of torque @ 21psi. Pump gas with half a can of Torco Race Fuel concentrate. Mods are:

FP Green w/ Tial 38mm external gate
UTEC with ECUtek reflash
Modded stock injectors
Ported stock headers
Coastal Dyno uppipe
Walbro pump
TXS RFL turboback
TXS FMIC
HKS BOV
Perrin Fuel Rails
Perrin inlet hose
Perrin BigMAF

A little history. Febuary, Clark came down and we couldn't get a tune on pump fuel due to major boost creep issues on the Green, and only wanted to run about 19-20psi on pump fuel. So we decided to do the C16, where I made the famous almost 400whp pull, dialing in at 399.3whp on Turbochargers.com's Dynojet. The next day 2nd gear shredded from a roll.

A month later, I went to an external wastegate setup and had full control over boost, and wanted Clark to come back down. But this time I decided to hit up the dyno myself. With 19psi, 19deg. of advance at redline, the car put down 321whp, 289trq on TC.com's dyno. It has been that way for awhile.

Fast forward to this past weekend. I was happy with the car. I decided that since alot of people were interested in getting cars tune that I would put together another tune session. Then I decided to "check" my road tuning against what Clark would do. So we hit the dyno.

I am very happy to know that the only thing needed was cleaning up a bit of the fuel map and small touches to the timing map. Nothing major. At 17psi, the car made 238whp on MZM's Mustang. I ended with the numbers above. I knew they were just numbers but you know how it sucks when you see your car making 29x WHP. Just couldn't break that 300whp. At one point Clark asked me to check the intercooler so I touched the cool side.. and it was warm. Usually it's cool to touch, but this felt like the hot side normally would. So I put my hand on the hot side.. and it literally burned me. It was scorching.

The dyno put alot of load on the car so when I went out for a test drive, I had to completely retune my AVCR. The first pull I went for.. it felt EXACTLY the same, if not slower than before. My girlfriend looked at like with this yucky face. Then I looked over at the boost controller and it was only hitting 18-19psi. AFR's were in the 10.4 range. When I turned it up to 21psi.. AFRs were in the mid 11s, and wow did it pull hard and smooth. So nice, in fact, that I never made a full pull until tonight.

So overall I am very happy. Judging from the numbers that I put down and stock EVO's and STi's put down on that dyno, I think I should be around 350WHP on a Dynojet.


There were 7 cars total that tuned. 4 of them were STi's with TBE and UTEC. One of them had headers. All four put down around 245-250whp and trq. The one with headers put down 255whp, 291trq with a can of Torco added to it. Without the Torco, that car put down 248whp, 274torque. That's some insane torque.

Just for reference, we tried to dyno a stock STi to compare the numbers to other dyno's. We had an STi with just a Perrin downpipe, stock catback, and Clark made a pull with the UTEC turned off. It put down 220whp. So that dyno wasn't reading THAT much lower.. so we thought. Then Clark looked at the logs and the STi was hitting 17psi and pretty much holding it to redline. Stock STi's hit a PEAK of 14psi, with a taper.

All in all, it was a good turnout. We had a few issues with some of the cars, and an issue with MZM themselves, but that is a whole other story that I'd rather not get into.

Once again, I'd like to thank Clark for coming out here and making this all happen.. everyone is happy like always, because, like always, everyone gained at least a good 30whp and a big fat grin from ear to ear.

BT
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Old 08-03-2004, 08:01 AM   #2
stickman
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how do u like that torco fuel concentrate?

what tranny do u have now?

going to the track soon?
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:37 AM   #3
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The STI with the 255hp and 291 tq had a header to cylinder head leak that is now fixed and she pulls harder than when she came off of the dyno. Not too bad for the stock turbo.

Thank yous to AZScoobie and Big Turkey for maxing out my car with a conservative tune and NO detonation events even with my knock sensor on super sensitive.

CPT
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo
The STI with the 255hp and 291 tq had a header to cylinder head leak that is now fixed and she pulls harder than when she came off of the dyno. Not too bad for the stock turbo.

Thank yous to AZScoobie and Big Turkey for maxing out my car with a conservative tune and NO detonation events even with my knock sensor on super sensitive.

CPT
Just out of curiousity, what header was used?
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:06 PM   #5
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GTG, Wally.
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Old 08-03-2004, 04:35 PM   #6
Big Turkey
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Sticky, the Torco was used both in cpturbo's car and mine. I don't have a comparison between pure pump fuel and the half a can of Torco because when I came in I already had it in the tank. No biggie.. I've been running this for about 2 months or so on every tankful.

I'm still on the stock tranny. I was going to hit the track Sunday but it was rained out . I got the dogbox gear in though.. now I just have to wait for it to be assembled

Javid, the headers were the GT Spec GenII headers. I had them on my car but I preferred the better spoolup and more offboost torque than the top end.

Thanks Pat

I'll keep you guys updated on track times.
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Old 08-03-2004, 05:13 PM   #7
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Wally, just sent you a quick pm.
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Old 08-03-2004, 05:18 PM   #8
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Yeah.. that dyno was a heart breaker. I shall name her Britney after a stripper I once wanted to date

Something that should be noted is that MZM has changed the Dyno configuration settings so you cannot compare old charts to new charts. The change lowered the whp readings about 40-50whp. Its always sad when you come across a dyno like this. It takes the fun out of it and you dont even want to post your numbers up. Rest assured all those cars where tuned out and maxed out. Bt's car would do an easy 350 on a DJ.

I tuned an STI that the owner had accidentaly used the wrong boost restrictor. It was pretty much stock except for the utec. I could only get boost up to 13.5 psi fading to 12 by redline. With AFR and timing tuned out that car made 200whp. I finall got it up a bit more then that but it gives you an idea on the readings.

I had a great time, it was hot and it was alot of work but everyone helped out and the event was a success..

Cya

Clark
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Old 08-03-2004, 06:29 PM   #9
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Big Turkey

"I had them on my car but I preferred the better spoolup and more offboost torque than the top end."

If I read this right, you had the headers, they reduced spoolup and offboost torque, so you took them off? Is that what your saying here? Not argueing, just wnat to make sure I understand you.

I plan to use the car more on the track (road course) and less on the street. Headers apeal to me because I anticipate them reducing the heat load on the engine. THat and they are lighter, and could bump the mid range up.

What are you using your car for? If my interpretation of your statement above is correct, do you think you would run them for my application?



Thanks
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Old 08-03-2004, 08:36 PM   #10
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Javid, in my experience, headers give you more midrange and top end at the cost of spoolup. On a small turbo setup, stock turbo, VF-series turbo, etc., I highly recommend the headers. They make good torque and since the turbo is small the spoolup hinderance is hardly even noticed.

On a bigger turbo, like my Green, the headers were just unbearable as far as spoolup goes for me. I would hit 19psi at 4900RPMs, sometimes over 5000RPMs when the headers were cold. When warm, 19psi was seen at 4650RPM. Which is doable... but the worst part is that if I had to stop at a light then the headers would get cold. I had them wrapped too.

When I went back to the stock manifolds and ported them, I noticed the low end off boost torque almost immediately. There was no apparent loss in top end at all. Like Clark said you really can't compare previous dyno graphs, but if I look at my power curve before and after the headers, it seems that the headers keep the taper of power at high RPM. But then that is when I remembered that I had the horrible boost creep issue and the boost was creeping up 1psi at redline.. therefore holding the power up there. As far as the buttdyno feels.. it never stops pulling.

I use my car for drag racing.

If you're going to use a car on the track then yes, get the headers, then get them Jet Hot coated. Since you won't be stopping much and will always be on the throttle, the headers will be warm, and the coating should help a little bit.

Wally
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Old 08-03-2004, 08:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie
Yeah.. that dyno was a heart breaker. I shall name her Britney after a stripper I once wanted to date
You and strippers..
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:01 PM   #12
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Wally as much as it sucks to see those kind of numbers with your set-up, i am sure the Traps will put a smile on your face.. Get to the track and report back..

How did the Uppipe end up working out for you?

Dave-
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Turkey
Javid, in my experience, headers give you more midrange and top end at the cost of spoolup. On a small turbo setup, stock turbo, VF-series turbo, etc., I highly recommend the headers. They make good torque and since the turbo is small the spoolup hinderance is hardly even noticed.

On a bigger turbo, like my Green, the headers were just unbearable as far as spoolup goes for me. I would hit 19psi at 4900RPMs, sometimes over 5000RPMs when the headers were cold. When warm, 19psi was seen at 4650RPM. Which is doable... but the worst part is that if I had to stop at a light then the headers would get cold. I had them wrapped too.

When I went back to the stock manifolds and ported them, I noticed the low end off boost torque almost immediately. There was no apparent loss in top end at all. Like Clark said you really can't compare previous dyno graphs, but if I look at my power curve before and after the headers, it seems that the headers keep the taper of power at high RPM. But then that is when I remembered that I had the horrible boost creep issue and the boost was creeping up 1psi at redline.. therefore holding the power up there. As far as the buttdyno feels.. it never stops pulling.

I use my car for drag racing.

If you're going to use a car on the track then yes, get the headers, then get them Jet Hot coated. Since you won't be stopping much and will always be on the throttle, the headers will be warm, and the coating should help a little bit.

Wally
Thanks alot.

One last question. I would guess that the extra lag came from increase volume as well as heat capacity (stock manifold stays hot and heats the air, headers cool off and air is 'cooler' / slower by the time it hits the turbine). Would you agree? What if any would you guess is the difference in internal volume between your stock manifold, headers, and ported manifold. Also, were your headers coated AND wraped? Or just wraped?

Thanks again.
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Old 08-03-2004, 09:59 PM   #14
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Big Turkey, you have a 2.0 right not an Sti? I just can't see a Green spoolin up at 4900Rpms' ever on a 2.5
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Old 08-03-2004, 10:00 PM   #15
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Very nice numbers! I need a bigger turbo
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Old 08-03-2004, 10:02 PM   #16
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What style headers BT?
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Old 08-04-2004, 12:21 AM   #17
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Big Turkey is running stock exhaust manafolds with a 205 motor.
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Old 08-04-2004, 03:46 AM   #18
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Dave, the numbers don't bother me that much at all.. cause I know that dyno is a heartbreaker. When I drive the car now it's just so much smoother and never wants to stop pulling. Very nice.

As far as the uppipe goes.. at the time when I was putting everything together, 2am, the uppipe came with threads and some studs. Well since the GT spec uses nuts and bolts, I didn't have any extra ones that fit the studs.. and the ones that I had didn't fit either. So we tightened the bolts into the uppipe.. it was a very tight fit. We didn't torque them down yet.. we were checking to make sure everything cleared before we welded the external pipe. So when we took everything off... the bolt stripped two nuts. We had to drill the bolt out.. destroying the threads. So I just decided to go ahead and drill out all of the threads and just used nuts and bolts. Also, on the uppipe itself, I added a bead of metal to the inlet of it, and then grinded it down to make it a little more of a smooth taper because it wasn't completely smooth. And on top of that the bolts that hold the uppipe to the block didn't line up perfectly, so I just left them out. I should really go back and try again to move everything, but everything is going to come off again anyways when the tranny comes out, and then I'm going to coat the uppipe.

Javid, I have no idea what the difference between the stock manifolds and the ported ones. When I ported them, I just laid down the gaskets, marked them, then grinded it down as much as I could. I used a gauge to measure the thickness to make sure I wasn't going to grind through the manifold. I took off a very good amount, and only got about 5-6" down from the ports, but I made it a very smooth taper. My headers were only wrapped.. never got around to coating them.

Lambert, I'm running ported stockers.

John, stock motor and tranny.

Si2WRX, what's your setup? Those are nice numbers on a DD dyno.. what octane fuel was that done on?

Update: The dogbox came in. It's being assembled as we speak. So I'm going to try to hit the track before it goes in the car so I can get a comparison on the effects of the longer gears of the Dogbox.
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Old 08-04-2004, 05:41 AM   #19
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All the numbers obviously look low and that just reflects the dyno- can you post the delta's for HP and torque for everyone?
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Old 08-04-2004, 07:56 PM   #20
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Steve, I'm assuming you mean the HP and torque curves? I'll try to get them scanned when I get the chance.
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Old 08-04-2004, 09:28 PM   #21
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If there were a mathematician handy or someone who remembers high school calculus well enough we could calculate the AUC for each (area under the curve) and I think that may be the best measure of how big a smile a car will yield.
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Old 08-04-2004, 10:56 PM   #22
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calculating that would be rather tough, not the integration so much as finding a mathamatical representation of this power curve. It would be easier to put in on graph paper and count boxes.
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