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Old 11-10-2013, 03:28 PM   #4076
Powday
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
You said the road gets icy in places when not plowed, yes? I'd definitely go with some sort of studless ice/snow.
Yeah, it can get that way. Thanks for the recommendation. Studless ice/snow tires will certainly cover all the bases. I understand that tire composition differs between brands, as well as tread depth, sipe placement and design, etc. which must make a difference in performance.
Snow Temps are typically above -5 degrees and up when im driving, if that means anything.
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:35 PM   #4077
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Originally Posted by Powday View Post
Snow
Wet
Noise
Dry
Ice

I'm not looking for studs.

Size is 16x6.5

The roads I drive are basically split evenly between dry paved and dirt. In the winter the dirt road typically keeps snow, either packed or freshly fallen. I'm willing to sacrifice performance on paved road for traction on wet and snow covered.
Since you rank wet traction well ahead of ice traction, IMO your needs are best met with a performance winter, like a Dunlop 4D or Blizzak LM32, etc
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:43 PM   #4078
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What SubLGT says, unless you swap wet with ice.

Krzys
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:56 PM   #4079
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This a basically a "get my family from Seattle to the mountains and back" ski car. (Mercedes e320 4matic -- think of it as a heavy Outback). Each weekend I generally do 100 - 120 miles of often wet highway with about 10-20 miles of mountain wet snow, or compact snow/ice slush.

I don't really need to drive when we have our weird 1 or 2 snow days a year in the city. I don't want studs.

OEM tire size is 215-55/16. I'm planning to go 205-60/16 on factory 7" alloys. Must have 93 load rating or above (which rules out a few good tires like the Goodyear WRT Ice).

My priorities are:

Wet (rain)
Snow (close to freezing)
Ice (close to freezing)
noise
Dry
Non-spirited driving (I drive more like a grandma in this car)

I realize I could probably get away with all seasons, but I feel better w/ snows (and besides my summer tires then last twice as long ... and dedicated snows gives me an excuse with the missus to shop for 17" rims this spring).

I'm leaning toward the Hankook i Cept w310 or the Conti Extreme Winter Contact. Any other ideas?
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:06 PM   #4080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
Since you rank wet traction well ahead of ice traction, IMO your needs are best met with a performance winter, like a Dunlop 4D or Blizzak LM32, etc
Thanks for the direction.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:07 PM   #4081
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With wet being first priority I would think performance winter would be the best match.
Or all seasons.

Krzys
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:28 PM   #4082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogstar View Post
***8230;...
My priorities are:

Wet (rain)
Snow (close to freezing)
Ice (close to freezing)
noise
Dry
Non-spirited driving (I drive more like a grandma in this car)
***8230;***8230;***8230;***8230;***8230;***8230;***8230;***8230;***8230;.

I'm leaning toward the Hankook i Cept w310 or the Conti Extreme Winter Contact. Any other ideas?
The Hankook (a performance winter) will be much better in the wet than the Conti (a ice/snow tire)
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Old 11-11-2013, 12:01 AM   #4083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
The Hankook (a performance winter) will be much better in the wet than the Conti (a ice/snow tire)
Thanks everyone. It's possible I overemphasized "wet" above everything else.

I think I really do need something more snow-ice worthy than than a set of all seasons. For example, I occasionally need to punch my through 12-15" of fresh, kinda wet snow at a backcountry trailhead or deal with a giant, kinda hilly glare-ice ski hill parking lot.

So I could swap it a bit (though wet is still very important since I spend so much time in the rain). Would that make a difference or are the Hankooks still the winter?

1. Snow (close to freezing)
2. Ice (close to freezing)/ Wet (tie)
4. noise
5. Non-spirited driving (I drive more like a grandma in this car)
6. tread pattern
7. color
8. flavor
9. Dry (can you tell I don't care about dry?)
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:31 AM   #4084
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With your new order the wet is gone completely.

It seems that studless winter may be better but you need to make your mind first.

Krzys

PS With 12-15" of fresh wet snow the ground clerance will be the biggest issue with any winter tires, I think.
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:58 AM   #4085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogstar View Post
(though wet is still very important since I spend so much time in the rain). Would that make a difference or are the Hankooks still the winter?

1. Snow (close to freezing)
2. Ice (close to freezing)/ Wet (tie)
You can't have both superior ice traction and superior wet traction in the same winter tire, with current technology. You have to decide which you are willing to give up. If I were you, I would get an ice/snow tire, and slow down in the rain and when you see standing water.
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:35 PM   #4086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyss View Post
With your new order the wet is gone completely.

PS With 12-15" of fresh wet snow the ground clerance will be the biggest issue with any winter tires, I think.
Agreed -- it seems though that a snow of some sort is going to have a better shot of pushing my dragging under carriage through that snow versus an all season. I basically gave that example as a reason why an all-season won't do.

Thanks!
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:38 PM   #4087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
You can't have both superior ice traction and superior wet traction in the same winter tire, with current technology. You have to decide which you are willing to give up. If I were you, I would get an ice/snow tire, and slow down in the rain and when you see standing water.
Dang, I hate the real world! Agreed slowing down is a good option, but around here -- especially coming down from the pass -- you can be surprised.

I think I'm still leaning toward the Hankook i cpept. The goodyear ice wrt would have tempted mem (at least if the tire rack surveys are to be believed(, had it come in a 93 or above load rating.

Thanks everyone!
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:47 PM   #4088
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Originally Posted by Giamilton View Post
I bought steelies with altimax tires from Tire Rack. As I installed them I noticed they had no center caps. I tried to put my stockers on them but the hub sticks out to far. I really want to protect my greased hub from the mag-chloride we use here in CO. What should I do or use? I'm this close to using black duct tape.
I am going to smear some vaseline on the bearing ends.

my TPMS has not come on either but I havent put a ton of miles on since Saturday (maybe 20?).

man, it's been a while since I had season specific tires. did not realize how poorly these would make my car handle. the last one I did this for was when I had a MkIV GTI. I suspect the difference in handling I felt ~10 years ago wasn't as pronounced due to the already crappy nature.
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:50 PM   #4089
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Black duct tape might not be a bad idea, if you can make sure it stays on.
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Old 11-11-2013, 08:05 PM   #4090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
I'm in Post Falls. I just bought a set of studless Nokian Hakka R2. Initial impressions are not good, because of vibration and balancing issues (excessive road force values). Am working on getting warranty replacements.
Where have you ended up with the R2s? What were your initial road force number? Mine were put on today and i'm not happy with the numbers but the car drove perfectly without a hint of vibration (just the good old feeling of driving on marbles... ahh winter). I'm debating my next move. Thanks
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:38 PM   #4091
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Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
Black duct tape might not be a bad idea, if you can make sure it stays on.
I'd user gaffers to hide that light lol won't leave any residue
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Old 11-12-2013, 04:34 AM   #4092
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Gaff tape isn't waterproof though.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:36 AM   #4093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhinis23 View Post
Where have you ended up with the R2s? What were your initial road force number? Mine were put on today and i'm not happy with the numbers but the car drove perfectly without a hint of vibration (just the good old feeling of driving on marbles... ahh winter). I'm debating my next move. Thanks
I'm still waiting for two replacements to arrive off the container ship, probably this week. My road force numbers were 11, 9, 8, and 7 kg. What were yours?

With the 2010/2011 Legacies and Outbacks with the infamous vibration issues, a TSB stated the max allowable RF is 8kg (17.6lb)

The dealer service manager told me that what they see in their shop is that winter tires typically have higher RF numbers than all-season tires. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:02 AM   #4094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
I'm still waiting for two replacements to arrive off the container ship, probably this week. My road force numbers were 11, 9, 8, and 7 kg. What were yours?

With the 2010/2011 Legacies and Outbacks with the infamous vibration issues, a TSB stated the max allowable RF is 8kg (17.6lb)

The dealer service manager told me that what they see in their shop is that winter tires typically have higher RF numbers than all-season tires. I'm not sure why that should be the case.
at least your numbers were consistent. i got (in lbs) 41, 19, 18 and 29. And they started at 41, 29, 21 and 39 respectively. i don't know what the specific max allowable is supposed to be but i cannot imagine these numbers are acceptable.

surprisingly, i get no vibration until 75 or so and even then it was slight.

I think i'm going to go to another shop and have them redone. for various reasons, i do not think i got the best service yesterday and i want to be sure before i chase after replacements.

did you run into any roadblocks when you sought out replacements? i had to buy my tires from one dealer and have them installed elsewhere (since the dealer i purchased from does not have a road force balancer) so i'm expecting resistance unfortunately.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:55 AM   #4095
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I'm getting Dunlop 3D's installed on Saturday at Tire Rack. I cheaped out and didn't want to spend extra $11-12 per tire and they didn't have those in stock anyways.

I could have used snow tires this morning because my Continental DWS were really bad after being destroyed in 2 autocross seasons.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:57 AM   #4096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
Black duct tape might not be a bad idea, if you can make sure it stays on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisrupTer911 View Post
I'd user gaffers to hide that light lol won't leave any residue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterfit View Post
Gaff tape isn't waterproof though.
lol. You guys are talking about two different things.

I believe the subject is covering up/protecting the wheel hub, NOT the TMPS light, Mr. DisrupTer
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:38 PM   #4097
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Originally Posted by rhinis23 View Post
at least your numbers were consistent. i got (in lbs) 41, 19, 18 and 29. And they started at 41, 29, 21 and 39 respectively. i don't know what the specific max allowable is supposed to be but i cannot imagine these numbers are acceptable.

surprisingly, i get no vibration until 75 or so and even then it was slight.

I think i'm going to go to another shop and have them redone. for various reasons, i do not think i got the best service yesterday and i want to be sure before i chase after replacements.

did you run into any roadblocks when you sought out replacements? i had to buy my tires from one dealer and have them installed elsewhere (since the dealer i purchased from does not have a road force balancer) so i'm expecting resistance unfortunately.
I bought my R2s online from tiresbyweb, and they have been cooperative in sending me replacements. I'm surprised you don't feel more vibration with a 41lb and 29lb in the mix. In the Subaru TSB 05-50-10 about Road force balancing, they point out that flat spotting after parking can cause high RF numbers, and the tech is supposed to drive the car for 10 miles and then immediately get it off the ground and onto the lift.

Which wheels are you using?
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #4098
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Originally Posted by SubLGT View Post
I bought my R2s online from tiresbyweb, and they have been cooperative in sending me replacements. I'm surprised you don't feel more vibration with a 41lb and 29lb in the mix. In the Subaru TSB 05-50-10 about Road force balancing, they point out that flat spotting after parking can cause high RF numbers, and the tech is supposed to drive the car for 10 miles and then immediately get it off the ground and onto the lift.

Which wheels are you using?
long story short, i'm fairly sure they just ran the numbers, maybe spun the tires on the wheels without making any tire to wheel changes and respun. not happy about it but i'll deal with them separately.

i spoke with another shop today and we agreed that i would drive it this week to see how the vibes go. if i'm still not happy then i'll bring it to them at 7:30 Saturday morning when they open and they'll have their top tech ready to do it right. if the numbers are still bad then i have ammo to go back to the dealer i bought them from. i suppose at the end of the day if there isn't vibration i'll be okay but i'd rather spend a little more oney to get the problem vetted out properly.

these are 235/45/R18s on my stock '12 STi wheels (perfect condition, only about 3k miles on them)
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:10 PM   #4099
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Ok 2002 rs, and on a budget. Just slid into someone's yard today on a curve, need snow tires. What is a good, inexpensive snow tire with aggressive tread that I could fit onto my stock 16inch wheels? (I should already have snow tires, living in northern michigan)
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:21 PM   #4100
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Originally Posted by rhinis23 View Post
long story short, i'm fairly sure they just ran the numbers, maybe spun the tires on the wheels without making any tire to wheel changes and respun. not happy about it but i'll deal with them separately.

i spoke with another shop today and we agreed that i would drive it this week to see how the vibes go. if i'm still not happy then i'll bring it to them at 7:30 Saturday morning when they open and they'll have their top tech ready to do it right. if the numbers are still bad then i have ammo to go back to the dealer i bought them from. i suppose at the end of the day if there isn't vibration i'll be okay but i'd rather spend a little more oney to get the problem vetted out properly.

these are 235/45/R18s on my stock '12 STi wheels (perfect condition, only about 3k miles on them)
Yeah, it can be tough finding a shop that does a thorough job of road force match mounting and balancing. I am not 100% confident in the road force job the dealer did for me. Some of the wheels have weights in 5 different spots. And they did not rotate any of the tires on their wheels, because they said there were no significant low spots on the wheel to be matched against the stiffest part of the tire. Maybe that's true, maybe its not. They gave me a printout of the RF numbers, but not of the wheel runout. And the car actually felt a little worse after the job (but that could be my imagination). When I spoke to tiresbyweb today, they expressed their doubts about the accuracy of Road Force measurements in general, but they are sending me replacement tires anyway. I just hope they are not worse than what I already have! I thought mine were bad, but after seeing your RF numbers, my set of R2s suddenly look much better. I think I will try an independent shop next time.
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