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12-26-2009, 07:22 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
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VF39 vs HTA68 vs Blouch TD0518G 8 cm
I've read endless threads on all of these, of course, including all 51 pages of the HTA vs 16G post, so this question is not being posed without considerable research.
I have an 06 WRX 4EAT with a VF39, Cobb catted dp (wrapped), TXS tmic, various silicone hoses, and a drop in panel filter. E tune by Clark Turner, running about 17 psi. I had a Borla Hush but my wife whined about how loud it was, so I went back to the stock cbe. Either that or be damned to an eternity of making all our trips in her CRV. This is my daily driver. I will probly never take it to the strip, may eventually track it since I'm only an hour from VIR. I live for twisty roads, though, paved or otherwise. Big hp numbers are great, yeah, everyone wants them, but honestly I don't care so much about power at redline as torque in the lower and mid range. So here's the question. For the best low end response and daily drivability, which of the 3 is the best? I know that the 39 and 68 are hobbled at the top end by the 7 cm hot side, but most everything I read says the 68 spools crazy fast. I have also read that much higher boost and more mods, e.g. headers, are necessary to really wake the 68 up. What I like best that I've seen about the Blouch 18G is that it feels like driving a V8 and makes better power with lower boost. I am willing to do some more supporting mods (bigger injectors, of course) like a short ram intake if it helps, but I don't want the noise of an EWG and want to stay with the stock CBE. Within those constraints, what's the best bet?
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12-27-2009, 06:34 AM | #2 |
Sammo Hung
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depend..do you do your own wrenching?
turbo..either 68 or 18g..but you will need more injector for either turbo... header on either turbo will delay spool abit.. but you will gain more power after you go catless tbe.. |
12-27-2009, 04:04 PM | #3 |
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cant go wrong with either one, really. Go with what you find the deal on. Maybe even consider going a little unconventional with a 8cm 16g?
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12-28-2009, 12:55 PM | #4 |
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My vote would be a Blouch TD05H-18G 8cm. The 8cm is a must on a 2.5L, it is a blast to drive, and has power EVERYWHERE. I love mine. I made 320whp/294ft-lbs at only 16PSI. IMHO it is the perfect size turbo for a daily driven 2.5L WRX.
LOL, my GF complains that my Borla Hush is a bit loud too. I just tell her be happy it is not a Blitz nur spec. Last edited by csmithwrx'05; 12-28-2009 at 01:00 PM. |
12-28-2009, 01:01 PM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
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Good info. Do you have a dyno curve? What other mods are you running? Seems like the 39 makes the best torque of the bunch, though. I've seen a lot of 310-330 ft-lb curves, thought peak hp is down.
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12-28-2009, 01:06 PM | #6 |
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I would stick with the vf39... the other turbos really aren't that much bigger than what you got.
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12-28-2009, 01:09 PM | #7 |
Scooby Newbie
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I'm starting to read up on alcohol injection. Seems like that might be a reasonably cost effective way to maximize what I have now. Or I could just leave it the hell alone and improve the suspension, which is really what limits it on twisty roads, anyway.
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12-28-2009, 01:58 PM | #8 |
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Add the alky (and tune of course) and see if you are happy. If you are, then you are set. If not, you can still use it to make even more power whenever you get around to your future upgrade!
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12-28-2009, 02:32 PM | #9 |
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12-28-2009, 03:31 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
Here is a link in my original build thread with dynochart: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1598649 |
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12-28-2009, 03:47 PM | #11 |
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Thanks for posting that csmith, this is the exact info I was looking for! Next year I am stuck between the cheap route (vf39+perrin tmic) or the proper but expensive route (18gc 8cm + perrin tmic + DW650+ walboro fuel pump etc etc).
Since this was a year ago, how does your tranny feel after going over 300WHP? my WRX is my DD also and I drive fairly conservatively, about 99% of the time. Once in a while after work I open her up but thats maybe once a week. I am afraid of grenading 2nd gear with this 2.5's tq. |
12-28-2009, 03:54 PM | #12 | |
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12-28-2009, 03:58 PM | #13 | |
Scooby Guru
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Dear God I hope you're joking. OP- the 18G-8CM is, by far, the best option, if for no other reason than the 8cm hotside. Better throttle response, better off-boost torque, and an on-par performer with the HTA68, perhaps even better up top. |
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12-28-2009, 05:56 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
Sure, going from a TD04 to an 18g is a HUGE improvement but honestly I don't see the point in spending all the time/money/effort/tuning into switching to an 18g if he already has a vf39. The vf39 is a great turbo when tuned properly. My 2 cents. |
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12-28-2009, 06:28 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
I drive my car very hard and take it past 7K RPMs (have a 7500RPM limit) almost daliy, as I have a nice 15 minute drive home form work on some great roads. I just don't launch/bang gears like an a$$ and always make sure to fully engage the clutch/shift smoothly and slip the clutch when needed. But, I when/if my tranny goes (or money is not as tight) I will upgrade to a 6-speed or some form of upgraded 5-speed gears (i.e. PPG, DS1, etc.). FYI...If I had to do it over again the only thing I would do differently is going bigger on the injectors, so I could run e85 b/c 650ccs will run out of flow way too quick for e85 (prolly get some DW850s just to make sure). But, at the time I did not even know e85 existed..LOL. Last edited by csmithwrx'05; 12-28-2009 at 06:43 PM. |
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12-28-2009, 06:41 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
Unfortunately, most people go out there and buy the "small" 18g with a TD05 compressor cover which is simply a TD05H-16G with a 18G compressor wheel stuffed in it. |
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12-28-2009, 07:16 PM | #17 |
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Also from what I've read the 18G with an 8cm hotside is critical on the 2.5; I don't know how the VF39 compares...
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12-28-2009, 07:30 PM | #18 | |
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12-28-2009, 07:47 PM | #19 |
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I just purchased the 68HTA since my VF39 took a dump during some highway topend pulls. From what I've seen, it's possible to buy the 8cm turbine housing from FP separately for $295 if the topend feels choked off, so there is some tuneability.
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12-28-2009, 07:51 PM | #20 | |
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Quote:
You can NOT compare turbos based on their size difference. And an 18G may only make 20 more whp than a VF39, but it makes it just as quickly and holds MUCH better. Now, my POINT was about the 8cm hotside, not 18g vs. VF39. With the 8cm hotside on ANY turbo, you'll have (as I already said) better throttle response, off-boost torque, and an even larger increase in peak power, which will hold MUCH better up top, while still making it just as quickly as the VF39. |
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12-28-2009, 08:31 PM | #21 | |
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When is the last time you saw a, 18G on an SAE corrected dynojet make 415whp and hold 400 at redline.. Never. I didnt even lean into my 68 and it made 30 more whp than when my vf was maxed out throwing me to 12.0's down the 1/4. Its capable of getting DEEEP into the 11's in a relatively stock form car (Im not talking Xdrian type 18G stuff where the car weighed 2600 and had ppg's). |
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12-28-2009, 08:57 PM | #22 |
Scooby Newbie
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See, now this is what I was hoping for when I posted. How come it took the heavy hitters so long to weigh in?
And Mikey, you're an engineer. We know that physics ALWAYS applies! |
12-28-2009, 09:15 PM | #23 | |
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Quote:
Haha, yes, I know. What I am implying is that even at 27-28 Psi, I havnt seen the 7cm hotside take its toll on this turbo up top. On the E85 tune it fell off a little, but they also talk about more timing and more boost for the future and that 430 falling to 400 isnt out of the question. The slight inconsistencies are the stock 2 litre SCREAMING for life, lol. |
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12-28-2009, 09:47 PM | #24 | |
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My tranny has 85k on it currently. I dont load the engine much w/ high speeds, but I do run through 1-3 WOT on occasion (not racing as this is bog launched haha, I need to remind myself why I spend so much on this car) I ease nicely into second to help with driveline shock but I am also on a Stage 2 Cobb TD04 haha, making ~240-50WHP tops. I like the 5 speed. I am going to look into PPG in the future, quite possibly before the 18g. |
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12-28-2009, 10:18 PM | #25 | |
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Quote:
Ah, yes, I agree. HOWEVER, the benefits of an 8cm over a 7cm on a 2.5 are more than just numbers and hypotheticals on paper. Xdrian ran an 18G into the 10s if I recall, and a VF39 hasn't gotten within a half second. But we all know that the difference in numbers and output alone did not make that difference. the PEAK numbers won't be drastically different from VF39 to 18G-8cm. What WILL be drastically different is the fatness of the powerband and, even more drastic, the improvement in driveability. And that's the point I'm making. My argument is NOT based on better performance numbers, but rather the improvement in driveability and fatter powerband. Would you agree, even apples-apples, that better driveability and fatter powerband make for a better setup even with the same numbers or track times? That's all I'm saying, but the icing on the cake is the improved numbers... |
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