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Old 06-11-2008, 02:36 PM   #1
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Default Toyota promises plug-in hybrid vehicle in U.S., Japan and Europe by 2010

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TOKYO -- Toyota is introducing a plug-in hybrid with next-generation lithium-ion batteries in the U.S., Japan and Europe by 2010, under a widespread "green" strategy outlined today.

The ecological gas-electric vehicles, which can be recharged from a home electrical outlet, will target leasing customers, Toyota Motor Corp. said. Such plug-in hybrids can run longer as an electric vehicle than regular hybrids, and are cleaner.

Lithium-ion batteries, now common in laptops, produce more power and are smaller than nickel-metal hydride batteries used in hybrids now.

The joint venture that Toyota set up with Matsu****a Electric Industrial Co., which makes Panasonic products, will begin producing lithium-ion batteries next year and move into full-scale production in 2010, Toyota said.

Toyota also said it's setting up a battery research department later this month to develop an innovative battery that can outperform even that lithium-ion battery.

Japan's top automaker, which leads the industry in gas-electric hybrids, has said it will rev up hybrid sales to 1 million a year sometime after 2010.

Hybrids reduce pollution and emissions that are linked to global warming by switching between a gas engine and an electric motor to deliver better mileage than comparable standard cars. Their popularity is growing amid soaring oil prices and worries about global warming.

"Without focusing on measures to address global warming and energy issues, there can be no future for our auto business," Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe told reporters at a Tokyo hall.

He said developing breakthrough technology was critical to allow Toyota and other automakers to continue to grow while avoiding damage to the environment.

The Prius, which has been on sale for more than a decade, recently reached cumulative sales of 1 million vehicles. When including other Toyota hybrids, the company said it sold 1.5 million hybrids so far around the world.

Toyota said it is also working on fuel cell vehicles, which produce no pollution by running on the energy produced when hydrogen combines with oxygen in the air to produce water.

Toyota, close to overtaking General Motors Corp. as the world's No. 1 automaker, faces competition from rivals, which are also all working on ecological technology.

For 2010, General Motors is planning a Chevrolet Volt plug-in electric vehicle, while Nissan Motor Co. is planning electric vehicles for the U.S. and Japan. Honda Motor Co. is also developing new hybrid models, targeting sales of 500,000 hybrids a year sometime after 2010.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:42 PM   #2
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It seems to me that once you go plug in hybrid or total electric then why not put a solar panel on the roof? Would the sunlight gathered not amount to being worth it?
Im not thinking it would replace the need for a plug but if you intend to park it outside anyway. It would save you money on your electric bill.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:47 PM   #3
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^^
Also, put a wind genarator (s) placed around the car.When it gets up to speed the turbines spin recharging the battery.Add regenerative braking,solar roof,etc.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:50 PM   #4
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^^
Also, put a wind genarator (s) placed around the car.When it gets up to speed the turbines spin recharging the battery.Add regenerative braking,solar roof,etc.
i would think that the wind generator would not produce enough energy to be efficient since you have the additional drag from the turbine. Thats what i thought at least.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
^^
Also, put a wind genarator (s) placed around the car.When it gets up to speed the turbines spin recharging the battery.Add regenerative braking,solar roof,etc.
I think turbines would make too much wind resistance at speed to be able to justify the electricity recuperated. The solar panels would be a neat idea but keep it mind, they have those on high end cars right now and it's only really enough to keep the car cool in the heat than charge the battery but even that can be a plus since if you run AC in your car, you'd be taking electricity and having solar panels would reduce the need to cool the car as much.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:52 PM   #6
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^^ I am really not sure.I was wondering why you never hear about it though,maybe thats why.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:05 PM   #7
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I wouldnt mind putting a wind generator in my front yard (not on the car itself). Maybe an extra solar panel that is 1 square meter or more. That combined with a full roof sized solar panel and Id bet you could get a full charge in about 5 hours of sunlight and wind.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
^^ I am really not sure.I was wondering why you never hear about it though,maybe thats why.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/...-047.htm#types

According to that site, a rotor with a diameter of under 1 meter produces 0.4kw of power with wind speed at 10 m/s.



So you would have to consider the friction of having to spin a turbine, not to mention the noise and vibrations it would cause to a car while it is spinning. As well, the weight of generator it has to carry.

Also, there is a mention of diminishing returns as wind speed increases, thus increasing friction and reducing the power returned.



At least that's what I got from reading this graph.

I could be wrong and if they managed to make a duct and folds in and under the vehicle to house two small rotors, it may help increase the range further when it is traveling on the highway where a hybrid tends to lose out its mileage.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jake1050 View Post
I wouldnt mind putting a wind generator in my front yard (not on the car itself). Maybe an extra solar panel that is 1 square meter or more. That combined with a full roof sized solar panel and Id bet you could get a full charge in about 5 hours of sunlight and wind.
that would make sense. Esp. if you live in a windy area, it reduce the need to run off coal powered power plants
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:17 PM   #10
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Thanks for the info.When I drive across Wilkes-Barre PA on the cross valley expressway,you can see the new Wind Mills on top of the mountains(pretty cool).So I have been thinking about it alot lately.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:20 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
Thanks for the info.When I drive across Wilkes-Barre PA on the cross valley expressway,you can see the new Wind Mills on top of the mountains(pretty cool).So I have been thinking about it alot lately.
Not that I'm an expert in such a field, I just tried to deduce whatever information I had and tried to apply it to this context. So I could be wrong.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:54 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
^^
Also, put a wind genarator (s) placed around the car.When it gets up to speed the turbines spin recharging the battery.Add regenerative braking,solar roof,etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragicon View Post
i would think that the wind generator would not produce enough energy to be efficient since you have the additional drag from the turbine. Thats what i thought at least.
solar panels on the car make sense, if only to drive the HVAC system while the car is parked. the GMC Impact/EV1 did that, iirc. unless the car is built like a Sunraycer the solar panels will not provide an appreciable amount of energy to actually propelling the car, however. a 1987 GM Sunraycer for those not familiar -- i know more modern designs win at current competition, but this is to illustrate the concept and to show how GM really, really dropped the ball:



a wind turbine on the car for use when driving would not make sense. no system is even close to 100% efficient, so you'd inevitably add more drag than you'd generate in electricity. (and even with hypothetical 100% efficiency you'd only break even. maybe you can gain a few points of energy here and there by cleaning up the airflow around the car, but i have strong doubts about this.)
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:12 PM   #13
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I'm seeing a lot of "perpetual motion" questions lately. Do they not teach the 3 laws of thermodynamics in US schools?

Briefly re-stated:

1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't quit.


But... Deploy the wind turbines during the 96% of the time the vehicle is parked. Using them the 4% of time the vehicle is actually moving is a losing proposition.
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromer View Post
I'm seeing a lot of "perpetual motion" questions lately. Do they not teach the 3 laws of thermodynamics in US schools?

Briefly re-stated:

1. You can't win.
2. You can't break even.
3. You can't quit.


But... Deploy the wind turbines during the 96% of the time the vehicle is parked. Using them the 4% of time the vehicle is actually moving is a losing proposition.
well the wind turbine one i dismissed, but if the car is all electric, you cannot deny that a solar panel would help increase the longgevity of the "charge". Why else do you think they put them on those eco cars. Its not going to be a 1 to 1 ratio of energy received to energy consumed, but when you put a solar panel on it is just replacing already smooth metal surface. It will help, but wont allow you to drive forever. I think that was the point that somebody was trying to make.
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:28 PM   #15
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what about using a turbocharger-like turbine? We use turbos to make compress air for power, but couldn't they be used to generate electricity?
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragicon View Post
well the wind turbine one i dismissed, but if the car is all electric, you cannot deny that a solar panel would help increase the longgevity of the "charge". Why else do you think they put them on those eco cars. Its not going to be a 1 to 1 ratio of energy received to energy consumed, but when you put a solar panel on it is just replacing already smooth metal surface. It will help, but wont allow you to drive forever. I think that was the point that somebody was trying to make.
solar panels don't violate the laws of thermodynamics, because the system when considering them includes the sun, and the sun has a lot of energy to spare. . when the system only includes the motion of the car with respect to the air and ground (ie, wind turbines) then it's a losing proposition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrebel21 View Post
what about using a turbocharger-like turbine? We use turbos to make compress air for power, but couldn't they be used to generate electricity?
refer back to my post, and the post with regard to perpetual motion machines. think hard about where this energy would come from.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake1050 View Post
It seems to me that once you go plug in hybrid or total electric then why not put a solar panel on the roof? Would the sunlight gathered not amount to being worth it?
Im not thinking it would replace the need for a plug but if you intend to park it outside anyway. It would save you money on your electric bill.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:50 PM   #18
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If you're charging the plug-in hybrid at your house, it's probably better just to put a solar panel on your roof. You'll gaurantee better sun exposure and can put up something large enough to make a significant offset on your utility bill.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post


refer back to my post, and the post with regard to perpetual motion machines. think hard about where this energy would come from.
well, it'd be driven by exhaust, but whether or not if it'll offset the power loss due to exhaust restriction, that's unsure.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
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well, it'd be driven by exhaust, but whether or not if it'll offset the power loss due to exhaust restriction, that's unsure.
Turbochargers are effectively heat recovery units, converting heat energy in the exhaust into rotary motion. So yes, it'll work. It might actually work better than using the turbine to drive an air compressor to make boost. Alternators are generally far more efficient than I/C engines...

But back to Toyota: Get off the pot already. Fleet sales are not going to solve the fuel and climate problems. Consumers need plug-in cars TODAY, not three years from now.
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:01 AM   #21
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with the price with fuel all electric bill are increasing at the same time

you plug it in your home do you really think its saving money
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Old 06-12-2008, 02:00 AM   #22
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with the price with fuel all electric bill are increasing at the same time

you plug it in your home do you really think its saving money
Quit assuming and do some real math.
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Old 06-12-2008, 03:20 PM   #23
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well, it'd be driven by exhaust, but whether or not if it'll offset the power loss due to exhaust restriction, that's unsure.
ah, my bad. i thought you were suggesting hanging a turbo out of a window, for some reason.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:34 PM   #24
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ah, my bad. i thought you were suggesting hanging a turbo out of a window, for some reason.
that was proposed earlier with the use of a wind turbine but that didn't seem too practical
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