|
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
12-01-2009, 04:55 PM | #151 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 106225
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Fairmont WV
Vehicle:02 WRX STied PSM 03 L, 05 GT Legacy Wagons |
The Suretrac is made by AP Racing. The same company that makes big brake kits, clutches, etc. It is a very strange design that uses 12 little free floating cams or nuggets that fit in groves in the diff case and recessed triangles in plates on the ends of the axles. The cam nuggets can slide left and right in the differential, and the cam profiles are designed in a way that torque from the engine forces the cams to hold both axles at the same rate of speed, but when there is a speed differential from one side to the other, like when turning, the cams slip within their groves and allow this speed differential. They can be a little noisy and slow to respond, but with more torque from the motor, the more lock force it has. This is not the case in a Helical. This site has some neat pics of a Suretrac toward the bottom of the page. It is not a Subaru one but the design is the same.
http://www.mycaterham.com/66828/117416.html Here is a good description on it from Subaru. http://wrx.grapon.com/techdocs/dccd/...%20Booklet.pdf Helical diffs work a lot differently. The most common types of helical diffs are JTEKT's Torsen (like some STis use) and ones like Eaton's TrueTrac. They have two helical worm gears on the ends of the axles and then 3 pairs of long shaft like helical worm wheels bolted into the case that connect the two together. The gear teeth are designed specifically so that the worm wheel pairs cannot turn the worm gears on the axles but the worm gears on the axles can turn the worm wheels. This has to do with the friction between the gears, their size, tooth profile, orientation, and ratio. This is the same way winches work, like in cranes, so the load on being hoisted won't simply turn the motor and fall. When cornering, one axle, turning the worm gears, can rotate the worm wheels enough so that one wheel can spin faster than the other. But when torque is applied from the motor the worm wheels are locked and cannot rotate one axle at a different speed than the other. It really is an ingenious design. It responds immediately to torque from the motor but doesn't have a true lock force per say like the suretrack. Here is a cool video of how the Eaton one works. And next is one of the Torsen. You can see that with the Eaton the worm wheels are meshed together, and on the Torsen they have spur gears on each end that mesh the worm wheel pairs together. Here is a site that gives the history behind the Torsen and probably a better explanation of how it works. http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx/PS84Gleason.html
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Last edited by FourOnTheFloor65; 12-01-2009 at 05:01 PM. |
12-01-2009, 05:05 PM | #152 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
thanks for the VERY informative response. not to be "noobish" but is there a clear better of the two?
|
12-02-2009, 04:59 AM | #153 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 106225
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Fairmont WV
Vehicle:02 WRX STied PSM 03 L, 05 GT Legacy Wagons |
Quote:
I will tell you, though, the helical and suretrac will feel similar simply because of their designs. Their construction is totally different from one another but they are both mechanical, clutchless, torque sensing differentials. Unless you are going to be competitively racing the car the effective differences between the two will be negligible in my opinion. The suretrac is a highly refined update to the 1935 Porsche ZF diff, that was known to wear out quickly. The suretrac may still wear slightly faster than the Helical but I don't think it is much of an issue. The Helical/Torsen diff seems to be the new hot thing, even though it was designed in 1958. A lot of different manufactures use them in factory cars, and have proven them reliable. The one feature that I absolutely hate about my suretrac is that when one wheel has no traction and the other does, like when one wheel is lifted in the air or on ice, the diff will not transfer torque to the wheel with traction. It works just like it is open. There needs to be at least a slight amount of traction for the LSD action to take place. But the bad news is the helical does the same thing. This made it very interesting trying to pull up into the parking spot at my apartment last winter because of a mysterious 3 inch thick sheet of ice under only one side of my car. My V8 Spec C 6mt and my V7 R180 both use suretracs. I just ended up figuring out a way to get a run for it and not hit the neighbor's truck. Then when spring came and rains washed out a bunch of the gravel I would lift a rear tire pulling in and get stuck again. For this reason, the static lock force created by a mechanical clutch type diff would be a lot better for me, at least in the rear. You may not have stupid problems like this. It all comes down to what is best for you. There is never a universal "best". Both are decent differentials. Neither one will maim you, kill small animals, or destroy the ozone layer. It's not like one explodes every 100k and one doesn't. Do as much research as you can, ask people who seem credible, be cynical, and use your best judgement. |
|
12-02-2009, 07:11 AM | #154 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
Thanks. It just seems a little weird; almost like a normal wrx awd wouldnt have as many problems. Tell me if im wrong. Im also going to be getting a v8 spec c trans with the R180. I guess im going to save some more $$ so I can get the spiider from Jeff @ DCCDPro. Ive been chatting with him back n fourth through emails. Seems like the best thing to do is get the spiider controller so im not ALWAYS in open @ 35:65
|
12-02-2009, 07:49 PM | #155 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 106225
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Fairmont WV
Vehicle:02 WRX STied PSM 03 L, 05 GT Legacy Wagons |
Quote:
Running the DCCD open sucks. Mine has been that way for over a year. Right now I am in the process of rewiring the whole car so I can run auto climate control, 04 STi ABS, my V7 Spec C EJ207, and the factory 04 DCCD control system. If I hadn't had plans to do this, I would have gotten the Spiider Deluxe or Dual mode controller. I have installed two of these and driven both cars with them. The controllers are easy to install if you have even the tiniest bit of wiring experience. I wired the one Deluxe controller up, including the gauge feed wires for the STi cluster, in about 3 hours. Without the cluster wires it took about 2 hours. They work very well, and Jeff (Spiider) has great customer service and is very knowledgeable. |
|
12-20-2009, 03:27 AM | #156 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 82745
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:2005 Subaru STI 2003 EJ207 S204 Wagon |
Anyone know if late 04 STI (male) axles is a direct fit into the 06 STI 6 speed?
|
12-20-2009, 11:59 AM | #157 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120273
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:06 WRBWRXWGN Now with 100% more Spec-C |
If they are male, they will fit just fine.
|
12-21-2009, 03:23 PM | #158 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 189537
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Philly, Schwenksville
Vehicle:2002 WRX Sedan & Wag Blue Sedan, Silver Wagon |
Quote:
http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_...el=Impreza+STI But they are the same price, and we know that a male end will fit into a female end. Seems like another SNAFU on Subaru's part |
|
12-21-2009, 03:56 PM | #159 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 120273
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: AZ
Vehicle:06 WRBWRXWGN Now with 100% more Spec-C |
I think the difference may be at the hub side, not at the transmission side.
Call the dealership to confirm? I hope I do not steer you wrong. |
12-22-2009, 10:06 AM | #160 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 72234
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: S. FL... Now Fort Polk, LA
Vehicle:2004 WRX SRR EJ257-35R-6MT |
04 sti had early axles... Female and late axles which were male. Only thing i could think is possibly a thickness difference because of the 5x100 bolt pattern? I have never had 04 axles next to 05 alxles...
|
12-22-2009, 07:48 PM | #161 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
Am I screwed?
|
12-22-2009, 08:26 PM | #162 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 72234
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: S. FL... Now Fort Polk, LA
Vehicle:2004 WRX SRR EJ257-35R-6MT |
thats an early 04 tranny? with late 04 and up axles... You should be able to yank those stubs out of the tranny. Thing is you need to change your seals when you pull the stubs out and get 05 sti left and right axle seals... Then you can sell your stubs online here for prolley a 50 or so...
|
12-22-2009, 08:29 PM | #163 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
i "supposidly" got a jdm v7 trans kit. looks like the trans is v7, maybe the axels are different
|
12-23-2009, 06:42 AM | #164 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
anyone?
|
12-23-2009, 04:04 PM | #165 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 189537
Join Date: Sep 2008
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Philly, Schwenksville
Vehicle:2002 WRX Sedan & Wag Blue Sedan, Silver Wagon |
What exactly did the former owner of the trans tell you, you were buying?
Does anyone know if the JDM VER 7 trans used female or male axles, or both? It is possible to put in a VER 7 gear set in an 04 USDM trans. |
12-23-2009, 04:07 PM | #166 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
i bought it froma vendor, and it looks like the axles are from a different car i would suppose. I NEED to know what to do or buy
|
12-23-2009, 05:26 PM | #167 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
It seems to me to be a V7 Trans and V8 axles
|
12-23-2009, 06:01 PM | #168 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
Would i just need to take out the stubs and buy the axle seals like srREXed said?
|
12-24-2009, 12:25 PM | #169 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 160489
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region:
SWIC
Location: all around the world
Vehicle:15 STI miss my wrx black |
this should be a sticky
|
12-24-2009, 03:08 PM | #170 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 72234
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: S. FL... Now Fort Polk, LA
Vehicle:2004 WRX SRR EJ257-35R-6MT |
what vendor did you buy it from? Normally they are pretty understanding and willing to work with you. If they shipped it like that to you, im sure if you sent them the photos they can make right. Meaning send you the female axles. but of course you can do it my way and just buy the axle seals and get your tranny in. Although, you have an 02 wrx? If so you can just use your axles... You would be pleasantly surprised to find they plug right up...
|
12-24-2009, 04:16 PM | #171 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
i have an unusual project going on. 2002 RS completly stripped down. took out all of the harness' and ecu. re-ran wrx harness' and ecu. built hybrid motor. now dropping the rest of my drivetrain to replace with V7/V8 trans kit. I will most likey just buy the axle seals. Thats all i need right?? take out the stubs, buy axle seals and insert my female axles?
|
12-26-2009, 06:23 AM | #172 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
do i need circlips too or just axle seals?
|
12-26-2009, 03:49 PM | #173 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 72234
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: S. FL... Now Fort Polk, LA
Vehicle:2004 WRX SRR EJ257-35R-6MT |
there should be clips on your male axles. If not, use the clips off the stubs. May be a pita to remove but some tiny needle noses should do the trick. Yeah, just purchase 2005 sti left and right axle seals. Then just use a pry tool to pop the old seals out. And when you put the new ones in make sure you know the lft is only left and the right is only right. That should do it homey.
|
12-26-2009, 04:08 PM | #174 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
thanks bro haha ive been checking in every few hours to see if anyone could help me. you seem to be my only hope. Ive been reading EVERY sticky, thread and whatnot about these swaps.
Does anyone know about the seals in the rear diff??? Looks like one of mine is broken Also, how do you take out the stubs in the front diff? |
12-27-2009, 06:09 PM | #175 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 166324
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: BLOD in BLOD out
|
anyone?
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
How to make DCCD work on a 6MT swap into a WRX (or other non-STi) | TROLL | Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline | 48 | 03-23-2018 10:18 AM |
NEED HELP!!! - 08 sti clutch fork doesnt work with 08 sti trans swap into 02 wrx | STiGuy23 | Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline | 4 | 04-09-2010 01:03 AM |
04 JDM sti 6MT swap into 06 wrx | lagodcm | Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline | 20 | 04-06-2009 11:46 AM |
2005 6MT swapped into 2006 WRX | Team Scream | Subaru Conversions | 4 | 11-15-2008 09:40 PM |
Questions on 6mt swap into 02 wrx | shadymilkman129 | Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline | 9 | 08-18-2006 11:46 AM |