Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday March 30, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-28-2001, 03:13 AM   #1
Mikey
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1647
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CAN.
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza 2.5RS
Silverthorne (SOLD)

Default STi 4 pot vs. x-drilled rotors+lines+CF pads

Hey guys
Just wondering which brake upgrade I should go with? I can get both options for roughly the same price. What do you think? I live in Canada where it snows so I have to use the OEM rims as for my winter tires, so that does drive up the cost of the 4 pots up a little in the long run. Any suggestions?

Mike
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 07-28-2001, 11:48 AM   #2
tmat3
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2817
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: NYC and Troy, NY
Vehicle:
2001 Impreza 2.5RS
BRP

Default

I will go with the 4 pot. Here is the reason:

X-drilled rotors will warp a lot faster than stock rotors. At the worst case, they will sometimes crack. X-drilled rotors have less mass than stock solid or vented rotors, therefore it gets hotter. CF pads will definitely help you stop quicker though.

4-pot have a lot more brake power than 2pot. 4 pistons pushing the pads at greater force will definitely help car slow down faster. Stock 4pot rotors will not crack or warp that easily either.

If you can get either setup at similar cost, then I would go with the 4pot, as I wrote.
tmat3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2001, 12:17 PM   #3
silverSurfer
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1361
Join Date: Apr 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Used to be Long Island/NYC...
Vehicle:
1999 Legacy GT Ltd.
2006 Rav4 Sport Silvarrr

Default

Quote:
X-drilled rotors have less mass than stock solid or vented rotors, therefore it gets hotter.
And the theory behind this is what?!?

Xdrilled rotors will be cooler than regular ventilated brakes , definately more than solid rotors and slightly more than sloted. The reason is that with the holes in the rotors, more surface area is exposed to dissipate heat. As physics dictates the more surface area, the more heat can be absorbed or shed.

As for warping, that's debatable. Many people have had no problems whatsoever with their xdrilled rotors and they've gone auto-xing, drag racing, track racing etc. However when someone who's been braking heavily and hard then runs through a puddle or sprays his rotors down with water "because it's kewl to see the steam" is asking for the rotors to be warped. Physics again dictates that the sudden cooling of a metal from high temperatures introduces high stress and fatigue to the metal, hence the warping. But probably the most common way to warp one's rotors is to stand on them after hard usage, and KEEP stepping on the brakes while the rotors are hot. If one is that paranoid about warped rotors, get they cryo'd. That'll relieve all stress points w/i the metal.

Now back to your orginal question which setup is better? Yes the 4pots will exert more pressure on the pads & rotorsthan standard 2pots. Yes CF pads, SS brake lines with better brake fluid will ALSO decrease your braking distances/times. It's a matter of preference. Many ppl have gone both ways with favorable results. Another question to ask you is what will you be doing with your car? Just street racing or actual auto-x's/track events? If actual racing, the 4pots would make more sense as they can still provide excellent braking pressure after continued usage. Otherwise upgrading everything will be fine. Personally, if you've got the money, buy the 4 pots, then slowly upgrade the parts afterwards.

My $.02 cents

-chrisC
silverSurfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2001, 12:24 PM   #4
North Ursalia
Miss You Mom
Oct 1940 - Feb 2008

Super Moderator
 
Member#: 809
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: NH, Land Of Many Trees
Vehicle:
2000 2.5 RS, '14 For
92 5MT SVX

Default

The 4 pot calilpers actually exert LESS pressure by area than the two pot calipers, but their swept area is greater, which it the larger deciding factor. 6 pot calipers have significantly (30%+ in some cases) pressure by area on the pad but again, swept area and the larger rotor is the key.


Brian
AIM: captaindamorgan ICQ: 84483950
http://www.northursalia.com
http://www.imprezamods.com
http://www.scoobymods.com
Ph33r me, for I am root
North Ursalia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2001, 12:30 PM   #5
rkkwan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5596
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2010 Honda Fit Sport
Black

Default

I've heard plenty of arguments about whether to use x-drilled and/or slotted rotors. Both sides have their very valid arguments, so you have to make your own choice.

However, for about the same money, I'll propose an alternative - get the WRX front brake upgrade. This is give you the larger WRX rotor - bigger heat sink, larger effective braking area - and it comes with the longer bracket. You will keep your RS calipers. Check out subaruparts.com. Since it's cheaper than the 4-pot, you can use the remainder to get better pads and SS lines.

-Ray
rkkwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2001, 01:12 PM   #6
Mikey
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1647
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CAN.
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza 2.5RS
Silverthorne (SOLD)

Default

Thanks for all the info guys. At this time the car is just a daily driver, but I eventually want to get into auto x-ing. Are the 4pots overkill???

Mike
Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2001, 02:06 PM   #7
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

You might want to go with stock-sized CD rotors (get them cryo'd) with the CF pads, nice fluid, and SS lines. If you get snow and want to run snows, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the STi 4-pots will clear minus-one snow wheels.

I had the CD rotors/SS lines/fluid setup on my Legacy GT, and that car was a braking fool! I always had to check my rear view mirror before I stood on them, because NOBODY expected a mommymobile to stop that quickly. Awesome mod.

Just something to think about.

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2001, 10:26 PM   #8
GTBGUY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2003
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
'99 BGP Legacy GT
'98 QS Legacy L (auto)

Default

Mikey - still deciding on the rotor GB aren't ya? Anyways, gtguy & silversurfer was in on the first rotor GB I did, North Ursalia was in on the 2nd rotor GB.

Believe me, the RS is alot less weight in comparison to a GT wagon. If it did wonders for that car, it'll be amazing results for your RS.

As mentioned in a previous PM , the only 15" wheels you can get to clear 4-pot calipers are the Raceline's and Speedlines. These will definately increase the cost of going with 4pots.
GTBGUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2001, 03:11 AM   #9
subysouth
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5039
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Vehicle:
2007 Outback XT
Grey 5-speed (sold)

Default This thread is helpful but...

GTBguy are you sure that the four pots can be used with the speedline and raceline 15s. This contradicts all the info I've seen. I thought the four pots required a minimum of a 16" and some 16s wont clear them (for instance the WRX 16")

Check this link to SPDTuning

http://www.spdusa.com/prod02.htm

HTH

Last edited by subysouth; 07-29-2001 at 03:14 AM.
subysouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2001, 03:19 AM   #10
subysouth
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5039
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Vehicle:
2007 Outback XT
Grey 5-speed (sold)

Default also..

RKKwan is on to the solution to your problem. Without a doubt one the best brake upgrades you can make. The wrx rotors, ss lines and better pads and your good to go...er stop. North Ursalia has the whole upgrade on the ravensblade site. Check it out.
subysouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2001, 08:31 PM   #11
GTBGUY
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2003
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
'99 BGP Legacy GT
'98 QS Legacy L (auto)

Default

subysouth - yes they will work (only certain models) Look at the '02 WRX's campagining in the SCCA rally... they use 15" Speedlines and have 4pots.
GTBGUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 01:36 AM   #12
wrxdriver
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5760
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Red

Default verification of 4 pot brakes for wrx

I'm looking for a 4 pot brake upgrade for the wrx wagon fronts, this description below at subaruparts.com looks like what I want, but doesn't mention support for wrx, only RS. I've got 17" wheels with lots of room, thanks for any info.:

*****
Get ready to pirouette with these calipers. Kit contains everything you will need to install 4 piston calipers on your RS. Kit contains 2 NEW OEM Subaru calipers, 2 NEW OEM Subaru vented rotors, 4 pins, 4 copper washers (for brakelines), and 1 set of brake OEM Subaru pads w/shims. The backing plates are NOT needed for this installation.


Price: $699.95
*****
wrxdriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 11:08 AM   #13
efoo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 80
Join Date: Jul 1999
Default

your stock WRX 6.5" wheels will not clear the 4-pots, so keep that in mind if you were planning on using them for the winter.

That said, the 4-pot brakes will definitely fit the WRX. I've seen them on a car in person.

-Edwin
efoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 01:39 PM   #14
wrxdriver
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 5760
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
Red

Default Thanks Edwin

Thanks Edwin,
I have 17x7 BBS wheels with a lot of room. Thanks for the info.
wrxdriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 01:46 PM   #15
mav1c
Hoodbridge!
Moderator
 
Member#: 560
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Vehicle:
2006 STi, 16 Outback
Crystal Gray, Silver

Default

OK...the myth about crossed drilled rotors colling better is just that...a myth. The friction used in braking causes heat, and the more metal you have in the rotor, the more the heat can dissiapte. Crossed drilled rotors loss that extra metal and actually run HOTTER than not drilled rotors, thus inducing fatigue, and warping/cracking. The only reason companies like Porsche still have CAST wholes in the rotors, is to reduce weight, and because of the large size of the rotors, the heat still has enough metal to dissipate.

Now, if you can afford 4-Pots, get them. And avoid crossed drilled rotors if you can. I'd recommend Mintex pads too and ATE Super Blue brake fluid. And get Stainless lines either way you go.
mav1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 03:47 PM   #16
dRu18
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4034
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Cupertino, Burlingame, Davis,
Vehicle:
2005 Infiniti G35c
Ivory Pearl

Default

if what you say is true.. then why do the porsche turbo's come w/x-drilled rotors? are the porsche technicians a buncha idiots? and why is brembo so popular for selling brakes that don't cool faster?
dRu18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 04:07 PM   #17
subysouth
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 5039
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Ocean Springs, MS
Vehicle:
2007 Outback XT
Grey 5-speed (sold)

Default hmmm

Maybe because they look so good? Does anyone know where there is an article/study doing a side by side comparison on this topic. IMHO, Mav1c speaks the truth. Anyone?
subysouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 04:41 PM   #18
mav1c
Hoodbridge!
Moderator
 
Member#: 560
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Vehicle:
2006 STi, 16 Outback
Crystal Gray, Silver

Default

Ummmm....dRu18....did you read my whole post?
mav1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 08:18 PM   #19
dRu18
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4034
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Cupertino, Burlingame, Davis,
Vehicle:
2005 Infiniti G35c
Ivory Pearl

Default

oops =X hehe too early in the morning
dRu18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 09:01 PM   #20
gtguy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2184
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Highland Park, Ill., USA
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT wagon
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

I don't know about theory, all I know is how CD rotors worked on my car, and that is...great. I had them cryo'd at 300 Below, and was running them with KVR CF pads and stainless lines. The braking performance of my Legacy GT wagon was awesome with this package.

These were rotors from the GTBGUY group buy.

Kevin
gtguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2001, 09:52 PM   #21
Joe Hogan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 699
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Green Mountain State
Vehicle:
2002 golf TDI
Blue

Default

Mikey,

If all you "plan" to do is some AutoX in the future stick with the stock brakes .. put your money in the bank. If you absolutely MUST do something go for the SS lines and good pads. Possibly Cobb pads, Panther pads or Porterfield street pads. If you get something more aggressive you will be living with the downside of "race" type pads and never see the upside ... high temp life and no fade.

For that matter you will be hard pressed to exceed the capacity of stock pad material on the street. Possibly someone has coming down out of the mountains on a hot day but with some care it can be avoided in the most extreme cercumtances.

My 2 Yen

Joe Hogan

1999 RS-t with stock brakes Cobb pads.
Joe Hogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: black 2001 JDM sti 4 pots calipers w/ pads, hardware and rotors. nelli-son Suspension/Brakes/Handling 2 10-04-2008 07:19 PM
FS: black 2001 JDM sti 4 pots calipers w/ pads, hardware and rotors. nelli-son Suspension/Brakes/Handling 8 10-02-2008 04:03 PM
CO: FS: Black Subaru 4-pots front brakes, EBC rotors, pads, lines 02rusWRX Suspension/Brakes/Handling 5 06-05-2007 11:45 PM
Subaru 4 Pots VS. Upgrading rotors/pads/brake lines WRXSIG Brakes, Steering & Suspension 13 11-02-2005 11:11 PM
sti 4 pot on 13.1 rotor? atomicapples Brakes, Steering & Suspension 25 04-10-2003 05:45 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.