|
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
07-03-2014, 01:57 PM | #4126 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 216281
Join Date: Jul 2009
Chapter/Region:
International
Location: Northampton, UK
Vehicle:2003 WRX Forged 2.5 Silver |
Would it be possible/ not adviseable to run a Dry Nitrous system alongside an existing water/ meth injection system? The w/m injects into the intercooler outlet at the throttlebody connecting pipe, the dry nitrous jet would be placed 4-5 inches away from it on my TMIC.
The extra fueling for the NOS would be controlled by the ecu. Is there a physical problem mixing nitrous/water/meth? thanks Trev
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
|
07-07-2014, 11:31 AM | #4127 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 164259
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
|
Quote:
|
|
07-07-2014, 11:38 AM | #4128 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 164259
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
|
Quote:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/nitrous-ox...hanol-mix.html |
|
07-08-2014, 01:33 PM | #4129 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
I can see any problem injecting water with nitrous as long as you don't inject too much to freeze the throttle plate.
Quote:
|
|
07-08-2014, 01:44 PM | #4130 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
Quote:
I believe a company used to seal the pump with sealant for years and recent changed to a vinyl sleeve. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alkycontrol-...-/321363151417 |
|
07-08-2014, 01:52 PM | #4131 | |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
Quote:
It helps funding the forum and benefit the members who use the products. Wonderful loop. |
|
07-08-2014, 01:52 PM | #4132 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 164259
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
|
Yeah, if they step into the new milennium any time soon and go aquatec I may pick one up.
|
07-08-2014, 06:58 PM | #4133 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
You can pick one up here:
3" (ID) x 6" (L) fits the aquatec pump perfectly. http://www.stockcap.com/store/long-caps.html |
07-08-2014, 07:37 PM | #4134 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 164259
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Frankfort, Kentucky
|
Stop spending my money Richard Punch hole for the cable or run the cable up to the top?
|
07-09-2014, 04:36 AM | #4135 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
Punching a hole on top defeats the object unless you seal the hole properly. If you are mounting the pump vertically, wire end up, the wires can run along internally?
I don't think the sleeve is that expensive. |
07-27-2014, 04:54 PM | #4136 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
May be of some interest to some, we have a new 5-quart tank system that might work on the suby.
http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-6...th-bracket-5l/ It is unusually weird shape, but who knows... Like some feedback please! |
07-27-2014, 07:27 PM | #4137 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 225851
Join Date: Oct 2009
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: FL, USA & San Juan, PR
Vehicle:07 Spec Wannabe Limited in San Remo Red |
Quote:
That looks promising for those that can not or does not want to use the oem sti tmic-water tank or the spec c unit. |
|
07-28-2014, 01:06 PM | #4138 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
|
07-28-2014, 03:43 PM | #4139 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 304967
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region:
W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Ab, Canada
Vehicle:2006 frankenSTi OBP |
I got a question regarding calculating nozzle size. Ill be running a vf39/ewg setup on my car and got a hfs3 kit. Im running stock 560cc injectors, since they wont be maxed out regardless if im running meth or not does that change my calculations for nozzle size?
I was talking to my tuner and he said if he recalled correctly I should be running a .8mm jet. I did my calculations with total flow from injectors and roughly 20 psi max boost and ended up with a .9mm jet. |
07-28-2014, 05:37 PM | #4140 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
Regardless max or not maxed out, you still based your calculation based on full fuel capacity. You can use the "gain" trimmer to scale up the meth flow if necessary.
The difference between 0.8 and 0.9mm is quite small. A 10C ambient temperature change would negate this discussion. |
07-29-2014, 10:13 AM | #4141 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 304967
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region:
W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Ab, Canada
Vehicle:2006 frankenSTi OBP |
Quote:
|
|
07-30-2014, 01:59 PM | #4142 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 178913
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Logan, UT
Vehicle:06 STI WRB |
Five injectors
Quote:
I'm putting together a 2006 STi with 1000cc fuel injectors and 50/50% methanol mixture. I want to do direct port injection with a 5th injector in the intercooler piping for cooling. I have some concerns I want to clear up. From what I understand, the benefit of direct port injection is to ensure each cylinder has even flow of methanol. When using one injector placed before the throttle body for meth, the mist does not reach all injectors evenly. So, the tune is catered towards the weakest cylinder (or the cylinder receiving the least benefit from the methanol injection). This is due to imperfect plenum design. So, adding direct injection removes the flaws of the plenum and ensures even distribution of methanol to each cylinder. The downfall of direct port injection is that it doesn't have the evaporative cooling benefit from the port in the intercooler piping. So, I want to have the best of both worlds, even flow, and cooling effect. I want to add a fifth injector in the intercooler piping. My question is, will that mess up the benefits of direct port injection? Here is my logic, please tell me if I'm mistaken. When running just a single pre-throttle body injector the cylinders could theoretically receive different percentages of the methanol. Lets say cylinder #1 receives 30% of the methanol, cylinder #2 - 30%, cylinder #3 - 20%, cylinder #4 - 20%. So, cylinder 3 and 4 are not receiving as much meth. Add direct port injection and they all receive 25%. Now, let's add a fifth injector. Each injector will be the same size for this example (I think that the fifth injector should be bigger in real life, but I might be wrong). The direct port injectors will each deliver 20% of the total flow. The fifth injector has 20% as well, but this doesn't end up into the cylinders equally. We are back at our same problem, but it isn't quite as dramatic. Using the same distribution ratio, the final result is cylinder 1 - 26%, cylinder 2 - 26%, cylinder 3 24%, cylinder 4 - 24%. So, if my logic is correct, the cylinders are fairly close to each other in terms of methanol benefits. The equality lowers when larger fifth injectors are used. So, basically I'm looking for validation that I am thinking in the right direction and direct port with a fifth injector isn't totally stupid. Also, can you help me pick some injector sizes? Again, I'm running a 50/50 meth/H20 mix with 1000cc fuel injectors. I want 4 direct port injectors and a 5th injector. I'm guessing size .3 x4 and a .4~.5 for the fifth injector. And last but not least, what is the best location for the fifth injector with FMIC piping? I'm assuming just after the intercooler core. Thanks Richard P.S. - To those who belittle others for not searching: I have searched and I'm writing this long question because I come up with vague references to fifth injectors and don't see exact sizes and locations discussed. I want some science to back up the idea of fifth injectors. |
|
07-31-2014, 10:46 AM | #4143 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 131787
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Sandy Hook
Vehicle:06 STI,OB,OME XJs Merkur Junkyard |
Hi Pearl
That is an interesting question. I am looking forward to hearing Richard's recommendation. I've often considered going to direct port injection on a GD Impreza myself One thing I've noticed is that most Subarus with methanol/water injection aren't actually tuned for the methanol charge. Most setups seem to take advantage of the evaporation cooling effect and increased detonation buffer provided by the methanol but rarely is the ignition significantly advanced or the primary fueling reduced enough to be considered "tuned". I suspect many Subaru owners with M/W injection would quickly find their clutches underrated and in need of immediate replacement if they were to experiment with more timing and AFR's in the 12-13:1 indicated range. But that is a lot of faith to put behind a one simple injection nozzle and most prefer not to rebuild every season. Direct port with a fifth injector doesn't sound stupid to me. It makes sense to cool the air charge down as much as possible before it hits the cylinder. Then the port injection need not inject as much and perhaps you could go with smaller nozzles for the port injection with better vaporization. If the overwhelming majority of your injected mist before the TB evaporates into gaseous state you shouldn't have to worry much about a dry plenum pooling fuel. I would put the injector immediately after the intercooler, as far from the TB as possible to ensure complete state change. You might even want to do two smaller jets on a wye instead of one medium size for the same reason. Another thing to consider is to put a 6th injector after the turbo but before the intercooler. This jet would need to be the smallest possible size (tiny!) to avoid pooling and logging in the intercooler core. But I wouldn't attempt this idea without repeated physical inspection during the tuning process. If you're doing this yourself I would get 4-channel EGR and o2 sensor logging -- hard to go wrong with all that data if you tune in small incremental steps. |
07-31-2014, 11:55 AM | #4144 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 137631
Join Date: Jan 2007
Vehicle:2006 WRX Red |
Richard, can the HFS3 support multiport injection? I am using a 1.0mm jet and it is insufficient for my application. I use 80% meth for my TD06SL2 20G at 1.7bars.
|
07-31-2014, 12:18 PM | #4145 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Woodland Hills
Vehicle:2007 2.34LR, EFR7670 LINK G4+ hybrid STi |
|
07-31-2014, 04:12 PM | #4146 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
The 5th injector***8230;
Water molecules (in liquid form) are held together by Van der Waals force (VDW). As heat is applied (or adsorbed), it starts to expand and change to gaseous state. The surface molecule is the first region to evaporate as it is closest to the applied heat. It will continue to evaporate until it has reached saturation point where no further evaporation is expected. Similarly, the vapour will condense and form bigger molecules when temperature is decreased. This ever-changing equilibrium state is commonly termed as enthalpy. Consider a closed environment such as the inlet tract of an engine (loosely defined without going to into too many details), the amount of water sprayed and evaporated is subject to temperature, pressure and humidity of the incoming air. Translate this into real operating environment. There is no point using a larger nozzle than what is demanded. It will only make matter worse. Once full saturation is reached, continue to increase flow will not reduce temperature further or resulting in larger and heavier droplets entering the cylinders unevenly. But what if the engine needs it? Direct-port is a simple solution. Not only do you get perfect balance of charge cooling and in-cylinder cooling. Direct port allows you to inject large amount of fluid without risk of over- or under- delivery. It some cases, you can run a slightly larger jet if one cylinder is known to run hotter than others. But what is the drawback? Answer: very little if you can achieve the following recommendations. 1. The fluid is free of debris and direct port jets should have inbuilt filter, the last line of defence. 2. Each jet should have an internal check-valve to isolate the fluid in the line being siphoned and empted into the cylinders after lift off. High methanol ratio mix left in the cylinder will promote pre-ignition. 3. Use a accurate true engine load tracking delivery rather reference to boost only. Aquamist users can relax here. 4. Constant pressure/PWM valve will allow the 5th injector to perform its job properly over a wide operation range without over delivery in low and middle load. 5. PTPE lines and compression fittings are preferred. As this thread is all about Aquamist systems. So you have the equipment, be bold and push the frontier forward. |
07-31-2014, 04:17 PM | #4147 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
The aquamist HFxxx system can deliver over 1300cc/min. You can increase the system pressure too 200psi quite safely.
|
07-31-2014, 04:17 PM | #4148 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:2004 Citroen Picasso Silver |
|
07-31-2014, 10:13 PM | #4149 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 178913
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Logan, UT
Vehicle:06 STI WRB |
Is that direct injected +2 injectors for cooling?
It's $500 to get all the injectors and hardware needed to go from 1 1.2mm injector to 5 small injectors. I want to know if I'm going to see any benefit over my one large injector. Sent from my SM-G900T using NASIOC mobile app |
07-31-2014, 10:43 PM | #4150 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 32669
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Woodland Hills
Vehicle:2007 2.34LR, EFR7670 LINK G4+ hybrid STi |
I'm not direct injecting... yet
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Passing the NEW required OBDII Emissions test in PA Questions and Answers!! | mrtrex | Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC | 29 | 03-10-2013 07:23 PM |
Snow Performance questions and answers... | Ultimate Collision Center | Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling | 374 | 09-23-2008 04:36 PM |
Motörhead Guidlines, questions and answers here: GO LEMMY!! | El Camino | Off-Topic | 9 | 01-20-2006 02:39 PM |
Roll Center, questions and answers | Arnie | Brakes, Steering & Suspension | 5 | 12-21-2004 03:26 PM |