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Old 08-17-2010, 04:15 PM   #701
EnterTheDragon
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Figure this needed a bump

My deadlift is up to 400
Bench is 300
Shoulder Press is just short of BW
500m row is 1:34
Fran was about 6
Squat was about 350 but I've missed about 5 weeks due to a groin pull, it's always something.
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:49 PM   #702
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Dang I'm jealous!

5'9" @ 151lbs

My deadlift is 255
Bench is 210
Shoulder press is 145
500m row is 1:47
Fran is around 8:30
Squat is 195 (I have chicken legs like crazy)
Power clean is 135
Push Press is 135 (funny because of shoulder press)
Push Jerk is 115 (even funnier)
Handstand pushups (against wall) = 17

My biggest strength is pullups
Dead hang max = 23
Weighted = 100lbs single rep


The things I suck at:

double unders - I can do one, then a single, then another du, repeat
pushups - I can do around 30 the first round, then it drops to like 15, then it starts dropping into the single digits (without a quick rest)
muscleups = can't do one yet (which is odd since my pullups are so strong)
running - I just don't like anything more than a 1/4 mile.
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:49 AM   #703
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You can do 17 handstand pushups and have a 115 push jerk? And you weigh 151lbs? Am I missing something here?

That 17 number is mighty impressive.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:20 AM   #704
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Ive really made some good strides here recently because Ive lost 10 lbs. I'm back down to 195, and my workouts feel so much better. I have to lose some bodyfat for the Air Force. I had gotten a bit heavy since the holidays and that was a good motivator to clean up my eating.

But anyways, I was making ridiculous strides with my strength stuff until I threw my shoulder out of place again. This time I was doing muscle snatches. The weight was too light and I was going too fast, which was stupid on my part. I didnt do any heavy lifting for awhile and did workouts sparingly.

But now Ive been back at it hard for the last 2 months(except overhead stuff....not gonna be doing any of that for a while), and it's starting to come back.

DL: Around 400....Was getting 2-4 reps with 400 before the injury.
Bench: did higher reps with 215 the other day, so maybe 265 ish???? Ive already accepted my bench will never be what it was, but I dont care.
Shoulder Press: Before injury, 170.
500m row: hadnt really done it as a test since losing some weight and dont remember what it was before
Fran: Before injury, 7ish.
Squat: cant do back squats....cant get my hands/shoulder behind me.
Power Clean: 200
My pullups have really gotten better since losing some weight too: I'm up to about 13 strict pullups.

The funny thing is that my favorite thing to do is double unders. Ive gotten to where I can bang out 30-40 in a set, though it's very tiring. My shoulders arms tire out before my legs or lungs.
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:58 AM   #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 555ideways View Post
You can do 17 handstand pushups and have a 115 push jerk? And you weigh 151lbs? Am I missing something here?

That 17 number is mighty impressive.
The push jerk is a form and confidence problem. I don't have bumper plates at the gym so the thought of having to bail scares the crap out of me. That combined with a limited confidence in my leg strength is what screws me over on the jerk or press. Note that my shoulder press is 145...higher than both the push press or jerk.

The handstand pushups are more about form for me...they don't feel like I'm pressing 151lbs.

Now, granted I don't touch the floor with my head either...I touch an abmat.



WCU25RS,

Impressive numbers still on the power clean....that is really high!
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:02 PM   #706
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There's been a lot of fallout lately between CF and other gyms who were worried about HQ's inconsistent programming, lack of support and willingness to take $1000 from any idiot and certify them as a "trainer" after 2 days of instruction.

The gym I currently go to was de-affiliated (much to the gym's delight) and does its own programming which is more strength based. The conditioing workouts aren't timed because people start to focus on seconds and their form goes to ****. Reading about your guys' injuries (I've had my own) further bolsters the fact that CF will lead to overuse injury.

This thread on irongarm makes for interesting reading. Most definitely NSFW:
http://irongarmx.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5075

Anyway, I'm just under 160# BW.

DL is 340

Squat is 245 (real squats, not low bar squats that CF uses).

Press 145

Power clean 200

Clean 205 (this was a few months ago, so it'll be higher)

Bench >225

Fran 5:31 (I don't care what my fran time is anymore. It's pretty much irrelevant)

Overhead squat 180

I'll have weighted pullup max in a few weeks.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:12 PM   #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post
Squat: cant do back squats....cant get my hands/shoulder behind me.
Use a safety squat bar. No worries about hand placement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hystikal View Post
There's been a lot of fallout lately between CF and other gyms who were worried about HQ's inconsistent programming, lack of support and willingness to take $1000 from any idiot and certify them as a "trainer" after 2 days of instruction.

The gym I currently go to was de-affiliated (much to the gym's delight) and does its own programming which is more strength based. The conditioing workouts aren't timed because people start to focus on seconds and their form goes to ****. Reading about your guys' injuries (I've had my own) further bolsters the fact that CF will lead to overuse injury.
Those are some of my biggest beefs with crossfit. Sounds like your gym is going in a better direction.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:57 PM   #708
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My gym seems to do their own training.. I can say the only WOD we've done that seemed to be lined up with HQ was "Annie" on friday.
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:20 PM   #709
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Originally Posted by hystikal View Post
...The conditioing workouts aren't timed because people start to focus on seconds and their form goes to ****. Reading about your guys' injuries (I've had my own) further bolsters the fact that CF will lead to overuse injury...

Which is why I do the excercises as quickly as I can *while maintaining good form*. Just because it's timed is no excuse to do the excercise improperly. I would hope any good gym/coach would watch for and correct that behavior. The head coach of the gym by my house studied under Glenn Pendlay and is a fanatic about proper form.

In short, sounds like an issue with a specific gym or coach, not with the ideas behind CrossFit.

Last edited by peepshow; 08-18-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:34 PM   #710
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Which is why I do the excercises as quickly as I can *while maintaining good form*. Just because it's timed is no excuse to do the excercise improperly. I would hope any good gym/coach would watch for and correct that behavior. The head coach of the gym by my house studied under Glenn Pendlay and is a fanatic about proper form.

In short, sounds like an issue with a specific gym or coach, not with the ideas behind CrossFit.
Proper form is a good thing, but it still doesn't address the lack of proper programming. The WOD appear to be awfully random.
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Old 08-18-2010, 03:13 PM   #711
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Originally Posted by -=C=- View Post
The push jerk is a form and confidence problem. I don't have bumper plates at the gym so the thought of having to bail scares the crap out of me. That combined with a limited confidence in my leg strength is what screws me over on the jerk or press. Note that my shoulder press is 145...higher than both the push press or jerk.

The handstand pushups are more about form for me...they don't feel like I'm pressing 151lbs.

Now, granted I don't touch the floor with my head either...I touch an abmat.



WCU25RS,

Impressive numbers still on the power clean....that is really high!

Ahhh missed the shoulder press number. Going for PR's without bumpers at a globo is a game changer. I'm always embarrassed as hell to drop anything. I feel like I'm not not pushing nearly as hard when using standard plates. I was at my fiance's cousin's wedding last week and I was working out in his basement home gym just to get some kind of WOD in for the day. It was,
4 rounds for time...
25 burpees
25 double unders
25 dumbbell push presses at 30lbs.

I kept telling myself not to drop the weights on this kid's floor. I was disciplined until the last round. My shoulders we totally gassed. I dropped the weights from practically overhead and made 4 huge gashes in his carpet from the 4 edges of the dumbbells. . I felt soooo bad. He was nice enough to let me use his space and I trashed his carpet!


I was under the impression that ALL affiliates do their own programming. Main site has rest days. Local boxes are open 7 days a week and do not rotate like the main site.

My old box used to do a lot of 3-3-3 and 5-5-5 lifts before the short metcons. We did a ton of team WOD's which I really miss. They stayed very true to the roots of the programming. All the benchmark WOD's would rotate in regularly.
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:20 AM   #712
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Hype will bring imposters who will "coach" without knowing ish. Can't fault crossfit as a program because some people don't have their form down or let it go or their coach is a hack.

The statement about a lot of fallout is more hype, there hasn't and wasn't any mass exodus deaffiliation in any kind of significant number.

The randomness to the programming was always a point of sale. That said I believe in dealing and squatting at least once a week.
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:24 AM   #713
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Proper form is a good thing, but it still doesn't address the lack of proper programming. The WOD appear to be awfully random.
I *think* that's the point, though, Tim. Prevent repetition and boredom in your workouts?

Unless I'm not understand the point you're really getting at. I'll be the first to admit you're FAR more into fitness/weight lifting than I am, so you may well be speaking to a point I'm not grasping.
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:03 PM   #714
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I *think* that's the point, though, Tim. Prevent repetition and boredom in your workouts?

Unless I'm not understand the point you're really getting at. I'll be the first to admit you're FAR more into fitness/weight lifting than I am, so you may well be speaking to a point I'm not grasping.
Perhaps that is the point and I'm the one missing it.

To me, CrossFit is not an efficient way to maximize results. Too many movements being done too fast to develop consistently good form. Not to mention the seemingly haphazard programming. In my opinion, you can achieve a stronger individual with as good, if not better endurance and speed by training smarter.

I recognize that everyone's goals are not the same. If a person were to adopt a different training program, it would not be CrossFit. And perhaps that is the main underlying theme - while not the best training program for reaching peak levels of performance, it does provide a decent baseline utilizing a wide variety of activities. And that variation is what keeps people coming back day after day.

The best programming in the world isn't going to do anything if you're not motivated to use it.
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:42 PM   #715
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Perhaps that is the point and I'm the one missing it.

To me, CrossFit is not an efficient way to maximize results. Too many movements being done too fast to develop consistently good form. Not to mention the seemingly haphazard programming. In my opinion, you can achieve a stronger individual with as good, if not better endurance and speed by training smarter.

I recognize that everyone's goals are not the same. If a person were to adopt a different training program, it would not be CrossFit. And perhaps that is the main underlying theme - while not the best training program for reaching peak levels of performance, it does provide a decent baseline utilizing a wide variety of activities. And that variation is what keeps people coming back day after day.

The best programming in the world isn't going to do anything if you're not motivated to use it.

A lot of people look at the WOD an think "10 minutes are you kidding?". But it is really about 20 minutes of warm up followed by the 10 minute WOD usually.

And like you said...it is variation...it's in the name "cross-fit".

Like any workout program it is what you put into it. If you show up 3x a week to do a 10 minute WOD then sure you'll leave tired and sweaty but it won't do much when you drive through McDs on your way home. If you put serious work into it and set goals, etc. then you'll see improvements just like any fitness routine.

That said...you still know far more than me about weightlifting, etc. so I digress.



Oh and today's WOD was:

5 round for time:

7 handstand push-ups
21 double unders
14 kb swings @ 55lbs

My time was 10:41.
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:50 PM   #716
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Our typical day includes



Warmup 10-15minutes
Strength or Skill- 10-15minutes

time allotted for WOD - 20-30 minutes.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:19 PM   #717
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Originally Posted by hystikal View Post
The gym I currently go to was de-affiliated (much to the gym's delight) and does its own programming which is more strength based. The conditioing workouts aren't timed because people start to focus on seconds and their form goes to ****. Reading about your guys' injuries (I've had my own) further bolsters the fact that CF will lead to overuse injury.
I honestly didnt realize those WODS on the main site were for affiliates to follow all the time. The gym owner/instructor where I go has always came up with his own workouts, so I guess I never really thought about affiliates following the online WODS every day.

Also, my shoulder problems have absolutely nothing to do with CrossFit.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:21 PM   #718
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Use a safety squat bar. No worries about hand placement.



safety squat bar? Unless I know it as something else, not sure what that is. Are you talking about a machine with the arms that go over your shoulder?
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:32 PM   #719
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To me, CrossFit is not an efficient way to maximize results. Too many movements being done too fast to develop consistently good form. Not to mention the seemingly haphazard programming. In my opinion, you can achieve a stronger individual with as good, if not better endurance and speed by training smarter.
like C said, this COMPLETELY depends on the individual and how hard they work. Bad form? It's not CrossFit, it's either the coach not doing job, or the individual focusing too much on their time and not the movement. This can be the case with ANY type of workout regimen. Also, what's training smarter? I'm not sure what you mean by that. What's not smart about CrossFit, when done correctly?


Quote:
I recognize that everyone's goals are not the same. If a person were to adopt a different training program, it would not be CrossFit. And perhaps that is the main underlying theme - while not the best training program for reaching peak levels of performance, it does provide a decent baseline utilizing a wide variety of activities. And that variation is what keeps people coming back day after day.

The best programming in the world isn't going to do anything if you're not motivated to use it.
I must ask, what is the best training? Ive been into fitness for the last 10 years or so. I was an avid lifter for about 7 of those years. Ive went through periods of just running, just swimming, biking, etc. I can say for me, I am in MUCH better shape than Ive ever been, and the only reason I'm not as strong is because of the shoulder injury. I honestly cant see a fault with CrossFit, if someone does it correctly and with intensity like it, or any other program, should be done.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:41 PM   #720
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FYI to all -

My box's WOD today:

Death by Thruster 75lbs (men)/45lbs (women)

Start with 1 rep the first min, then 2 the second min, 3 the third***8230;.. until you can't continue. At that point you cut your last number in half. Everyone atleast goes until the 20 min mark. You may only continue past 20 minutes if you haven't scaled up to that point.

I'll finish with a 2400m - 3200m run. This will be about 60 mins of activity when you figure in my warmup (10-15 mins spin).
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:44 PM   #721
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I honestly didnt realize those WODS on the main site were for affiliates to follow all the time. The gym owner/instructor where I go has always came up with his own workouts, so I guess I never really thought about affiliates following the online WODS every day.

Also, my shoulder problems have absolutely nothing to do with CrossFit.
My box usually does a "custom" WOD, but some days it lines up with the national page. <shrug>

I did the "Hansen" WOD last night. Substituted normal situps for the glute ham situps and 50lb kettlebell instead of 2 pood. It kicked my ass!
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Old 08-19-2010, 04:02 PM   #722
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safety squat bar? Unless I know it as something else, not sure what that is. Are you talking about a machine with the arms that go over your shoulder?
Safety Squat Bar

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Originally Posted by wcu25rs View Post
I must ask, what is the best training? Ive been into fitness for the last 10 years or so. I was an avid lifter for about 7 of those years. Ive went through periods of just running, just swimming, biking, etc. I can say for me, I am in MUCH better shape than Ive ever been, and the only reason I'm not as strong is because of the shoulder injury. I honestly cant see a fault with CrossFit, if someone does it correctly and with intensity like it, or any other program, should be done.
Remember, these are just my opinions.

When you are lifting for maximum repetitions in minimum time, form will suffer. When form suffers, the amount of weight you can lift is compromised. Most of what I've seen in CrossFit is sloppy form or degenerates to sloppy form towards the end of a set. Keep in mind that I don't feel that there is ever a perfect rep. There is always room for improvement.

In my mind, training should be approached in a more focused manner. The first block of training would be a conditioning phase. This phase would include some heavy lifting, but nothing in the way of maximum loads. The purpose of this block is to build the capacity to perform work. Training would include GPP work, pre-hab, and lifting. Some of this work would be combined in one workout while others would be done on different days.

The second block would become more specialized. The weights lifted would be closer to maximum loads and the number of repetitions would drop. Conditioning work would be moved to separate days from weight training days. The key to this period is avoiding over training. If you're young, healthy, have a decent diet, and put your work into the first block, this shouldn't be a real problem.

The third block would be used to address weaknesses found in the second block. Ordinarily, this is where I would concentrate on sport specific work, but if your goal is general, overall fitness, than you don't have a sport specific goal. The key to this block is to identify your weakness - believe it or not, this can be a problem for an individual. It helps to have someone review your previous work.

If you have achieved your goals in increasing the weights you can handle, but you've added time to 1-mile run you would change your program to address that running deficit in very directed manner. If the opposite was true, than you would concentrate more on your lifting. Depending on goals, this could be the shortest of block of the three. And by focusing, I mean if adding pounds to your total was your primary goal, you would be performing those movements with some accessory work and nothing else. If running faster was your goal, you would perform the work necessary for that and drop the weights.

Then you begin again. Most of your time would be spent in block 2 - unless you were in horrible shape. Than you would spend a lot of time, initially, in block 1.

The biggest improvements a person can make to their physical fitness level is to increase strength. The stronger you are, the higher you can jump, the faster you can run, the further you can throw, the longer it takes you to become fatigued, the more you can accomplish.

Last edited by Tim K.; 08-19-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 08-19-2010, 10:41 PM   #723
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Remember, these are just my opinions.

When you are lifting for maximum repetitions in minimum time, form will suffer. When form suffers, the amount of weight you can lift is compromised. Most of what I've seen in CrossFit is sloppy form or degenerates to sloppy form towards the end of a set. Keep in mind that I don't feel that there is ever a perfect rep. There is always room for improvement.
form will only suffer if you let it. Me as well as my other CrossFit buddies who work out together and are pretty experienced will always find the right medium between doing as fast as possible that correct form will allow. Also, you seem to be under the impression that CrossFit is just about max reps in minimum time, and simply isnt true.

Quote:
In my mind, training should be approached in a more focused manner. The first block of training would be a conditioning phase. This phase would include some heavy lifting, but nothing in the way of maximum loads. The purpose of this block is to build the capacity to perform work. Training would include GPP work, pre-hab, and lifting. Some of this work would be combined in one workout while others would be done on different days.
we do alot of this.
Quote:
The second block would become more specialized. The weights lifted would be closer to maximum loads and the number of repetitions would drop. Conditioning work would be moved to separate days from weight training days. The key to this period is avoiding over training. If you're young, healthy, have a decent diet, and put your work into the first block, this shouldn't be a real problem.
We do this as well, to an extent. We will divide up heavier days from lighter ones, but sometimes we blend them so to speak. That's one thing I love about CrossFit. We'll spend plenty of time on compound lifts, but we will have cardio days and then blended days. As as avid lifter like I used to be, I would be bored to death now doing a conventional lifting routine and be in far worse shape.

Quote:
The third block would be used to address weaknesses found in the second block. Ordinarily, this is where I would concentrate on sport specific work, but if your goal is general, overall fitness, than you don't have a sport specific goal. The key to this block is to identify your weakness - believe it or not, this can be a problem for an individual. It helps to have someone review your previous work.

We do this as well....sport specific goals.
Quote:
If you have achieved your goals in increasing the weights you can handle, but you've added time to 1-mile run you would change your program to address that running deficit in very directed manner. If the opposite was true, than you would concentrate more on your lifting. Depending on goals, this could be the shortest of block of the three. And by focusing, I mean if adding pounds to your total was your primary goal, you would be performing those movements with some accessory work and nothing else. If running faster was your goal, you would perform the work necessary for that and drop the weights.
the thing about CrossFit is that you can do both. Until a previous injury sidelined me for a bit like I mentioned earlier, I was getting stronger, yet my running times were dropping as well as my times for my workouts.

Quote:
The biggest improvements a person can make to their physical fitness level is to increase strength. The stronger you are, the higher you can jump, the faster you can run, the further you can throw, the longer it takes you to become fatigued, the more you can accomplish.
you might can do things stronger, but that doesnt mean you are in shape(I dont mean you personally, just in general). I know that from previous experience.
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Old 08-20-2010, 06:56 AM   #724
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I'm not trying to change anyone's mind concerning CrossFit. If it is the program that keeps you motivated and training, then its a damned good program for you. The debate can go on and on, but really, why bother with it? CrossFit helps people achieve their goals. There will always be a myriad of ways to skin a cat. In the end, the cat always winds up skinned.
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Old 08-20-2010, 08:03 AM   #725
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I understand that, but you seem to have alot of misconceptions about CrossFit....alot of people do.
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